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Post by Indigo on May 20, 2014 16:03:48 GMT
Well, the reasons you listed are why it's mainstream, along with its actually good gimmick and appearance. Because it's so good at anything it can do and has an excellent typing, and fits into any team. But isn't Mawile also a Steel type that covers Fighting? I didn't think I'd have to admit anything. You already know why or why not I use Pokemon.
Megas in general are kinda dumb, but at least Charizard Y doesn't have a huge list of resistances, two immunities, a strong priority move, and like you said, he's a one trick pony. Well, relying on abusing Fire attacks and sunlight is... And there's the crippling 4x weakness. But he learns quite a diverse set of usable moves, so he can be used better than that, and outside of Fire attacks in sunlight his attack isn't 200+ like Mawile without any conditions for it and for any attack.
Well, I've only been thinking about it because two of my Pokemon have abilities (or moves) that also benefit from Drought. That, and Charizard's a gekiganger, and my team could really use a Fire type and more Fighting resistance, plus I'm actually looking at his physical movepool, 100 attack isn't bad and he can use some offensive moves of types my team lacks. The unexpected attack is the strongest, and that's my team's real saving grace.
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Post by Stove on May 20, 2014 20:05:42 GMT
Well, the reasons you listed are why it's mainstream, along with its actually good gimmick and appearance. Because it's so good at anything it can do and has an excellent typing, and fits into any team. But isn't Mawile also a Steel type that covers Fighting? I didn't think I'd have to admit anything. You already know why or why not I use Pokemon. Megas in general are kinda dumb, but at least Charizard Y doesn't have a huge list of resistances, two immunities, a strong priority move, and like you said, he's a one trick pony. Well, relying on abusing Fire attacks and sunlight is... And there's the crippling 4x weakness. But he learns quite a diverse set of usable moves, so he can be used better than that, and outside of Fire attacks in sunlight his attack isn't 200+ like Mawile without any conditions for it and for any attack. Well, I've only been thinking about it because two of my Pokemon have abilities (or moves) that also benefit from Drought. That, and Charizard's a gekiganger, and my team could really use a Fire type and more Fighting resistance, plus I'm actually looking at his physical movepool, 100 attack isn't bad and he can use some offensive moves of types my team lacks. The unexpected attack is the strongest, and that's my team's real saving grace. Mawile gets hit neutrally by fighting. It doesn't cover it, it's just not bothered by it as much. Also, Mawile's even more one-dimensional than Charizard-Y. At least with Charizard, before it mega evolves you don't know what it is, and like you said, it can opt a mixed/physical set (though the only physical attack I'd reccomend on Zard Y is Flare Blitz.) Besides, megas aren't as broken as you think...you have to give up your item to use it. They give new life into some pokemon(Aerodactyl, Kangaskhan, Charizard, Mawile, and Medicham), some are inferior to their normal version due to lack of an item (Mega Garchomp is slower AND weaker than Life Orb Garchomp, Tyranitar prefers Assault Vest for versions not running D-Dance or Rocks, and Mega Scizor is only better for bulky swords dance and utility.) and some are in between (Blaziken likes the bulk but misses Life Orb, Alakazam is weaker but faster with an ability that can be better or worse than Magic Guard, and Venusaur likes it's newfound bulk, but misses being a Chlorophyll sweeper.) There are a couple that are just plain overpowered (Gengar and Lucario) but most are a good idea in general. I feel megas are executed very well. (also just a heads up, Mega Mawile is weaker than Choice Band Diggersby, who has STAB priority, usable speed, a great STAB combo, and doesn't use a mega slot. Mega Mawile(and megas in general) are not as strong as you make them out to be.) |
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Post by Indigo on May 20, 2014 23:15:37 GMT
I'll take your word for it... But what I see is Mega Mawile is like giving Mawile three life orbs minus its drawback, and a few other stat boosts.
But yes, sorry, I just don't really want to use Aegislash. For Charizard Y, I was thinking of possibly making a mixed attacker. Flare Blitz/(Earthquake/Steel Wing)/Dragon Tail/Air Slash. Well, it's not like he's final.
Are Fan or Heat Rotom any good? I like that Fan Rotom has Emolga's typing... I like Heat Rotom's typing and Fire type as well. I think the latter compliments the team more. They can add some Volt Switch and Thunder Wave/Will-o support, too.
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Post by Stove on May 21, 2014 3:07:19 GMT
Dragon Tail isn't good on a pokemon so frail.
(How could you not like Aegislash---meh...)
If you like Rotom-Fan's typing, might I suggest Zapdos? It's versatile and good with the same typing.
Rotom-Fan is not good. End of story. Rotom- EasyBake on the other hand is good, but not defensively. A scarf or specs set with trick/overheat/voltswitch or thunderbolt/ coverage move.
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Post by Indigo on May 21, 2014 4:31:27 GMT
I don't really dislike it, I'd just prefer to use other Pokemon. Well, I just realized... or remembered, Scyther has a 4x rock weakness, too, so I should probably not use Charizard... I backpedaled some of the team and went back to its gekiganger origins. Gonna just forget about Tropius and keep Sceptile for now, unless I feel later on I could replace their spots. Azumarill back to Greninja... Maybe. I just love Greninja but I may use Azumarill instead if it's best, and Mat Block is awesome. And Skarmory because it's kind of a pseudo-Aegislash role more based on support and defense. www.pokemon-tools.com/xy/en/type_analyzer/352/227/695/254/658/123/Seems kinda decent for what it is? It's 5 lizardsish (Scyther? And Greninja kinda counts) which makes me happy, and Skarmory is the mecha bird. Looks a lot more promising than what I used to have in synergy. |
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Post by Metal on May 21, 2014 19:53:20 GMT
man i really need to make a trip home and get my 3ds lol. i miss playing my y version /: that and my teams seem like poo by comparison to some of these teams.
however, i kinda also see where claxus is coming from, forget using the "good" pokemon, id rather use the ones i like and enjoy and make a good team from them. but then thats generally what i do in game anyways, at least in story, the others i just catch to fill out the pokedex, and they end up rotting away in my pc /:
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Post by Indigo on Jun 29, 2014 23:00:05 GMT
Steve got me semi-hooked back into this. I finally started trying out Doubles. Prototype team:
Kecleon @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4SDef
-Power Up Punch
-Sucker Punch
-Shadow Sneak
-Recover/Skill Swap/Fake Out?
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
Sturdy ability
252 HP, 232 SDef, 24 Speed (I don't remember what this number was for, it outruns a key pokemon, but I forgot what it was.)
-Stealth Rock
-Brave Bird
-Tailwind/Whirlwind
-Roost/Protect
Banette @ Banetite
Adamant Nature
252HP, 252 Atk, 4 Speed (To outrun other Banette)
-Sucker Punch
-Shadow Sneak
-Taunt
-Destiny Bond
Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Hasty Nature
252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4SAtk
-Draco Meteor
-Earthquake
-U turn
-Defog
Greninja @ Expert Belt
Timid Nature
4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Speed
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse
-Hidden Power Fire/Mat Block
Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Hasty Nature
4 Attack, 252 SAtk, 252 Speed
Dry Skin ability
-Thunderbolt
-Focus Miss/Surf
-Dark Pulse
-U Turn/Thunder Wave
That's a team Steve suggested to me. I bolded my presumed changes going into Doubles, but I'm still unsure of a lot. Kecleon probably has little use for Recover in Doubles... Fake Out is kinda self explanatory and invaluable and works with his priority style. But Skill Swapping Protean is something pretty capable. More on this later... Skill Swap kinda sucks with the above team. Skarmory, replace Tailwind with Whirlwind to break some setups... Every other Pokemon in this team has speed or priority. Protect > Roost in Doubles I think. Banette... Idk he's a Steve tribute and already has a solid support role. Flygon looks fine for Doubles, too. Greninja can lose the fire for REVERSE TATAMI. Heliolisk with Surf can hit multiple enemies, and can hit decently with his Sp. Attack. Problem is friendly fire... Kecleon can take it pretty well, and Greninja, who can use Surf to heal Heliolisk, pretty decent tag-team attack to mop up Pokemon. But, there's some other Pokemon I'm thinking of.
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room/Magic Coat
- Recover/Somethingelse?
Sceptile @ Focus Sash/Life Orb(probably this in Doubles)
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Earthquake
- Leech Seed
- Rock Slide
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
Porygon2, I tried in a team identical to the first one above, but replacing Banette. It worked well, a second bulky attacker for the team with BoltBeam. I managed to Skill Swap Protean to it and it was crazy with Trick Room and Skarmory. Kecleon got going as well with some power-up punches, moving first. Though Banette's attack and support/priority may be better overall. And, Sceptile and Charizard. I switched out Flygon and Banette for them. Sceptile provides Leech Seed, as well as being a solid mixed attacker with two moves that can multi-hit, one even capable of flinch hax. Leaf Storm hits hard, and the following SpA debuff won't bother him. This Sceptile with Protean is pretty scary. Charizard X kinda replaces Flygon, is the only true sweeper in the team, and adds much-needed Fire capability. Although I can just keep Flygon or Banette instead. |
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Post by Stove on Jun 30, 2014 13:46:33 GMT
Bulky Zard X is actually a really good set and works really well. If you don't care for M-Banette that much you could put Zard X in. I would recommend putting another ghost in to replace him for the sake of synergy, but Mega Zard X is a great choice.
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Post by Indigo on Jul 1, 2014 0:34:32 GMT
Charizard X is pretty much King Gekko Gainer... And viable addition. Although I love Flygon, my team really needs the punch of his typing and sweeper capabilities. If I go with Charizard X, he and the rest of the gekko team will go perfectly with this proclaimed theme song. The salamander shouts, the burning flame in my fist
I'll become an incandescent dragon and fly!!
The salamander roars, the Spirit will be attached onto my body
And I'll open up a new legend! Well, I do like Banette, but I think it kinda needs the mega evolution, but I'd rather have King Gekko Gainer. Not sure about ghost types, though... Which would be good here? I want to say Golurk, but I dunno... He's my third favorite Pokemon, and if it's a ghost type I need I'm glad he could fit that role. At the same time, his weaknesses are pretty terrible, and his bulk is just overall average which justifies nothing. On the other hand he has some pretty decent moves and abilities, and some resistances and immune to three common types (I mean, only one more than typical ghosts, but still). He can use Stealth Rock... I could change Skarmory to use Spikes, so I'll have both. And otherwise he has very impressive and powerful coverage with Iron Fist and tutor punches. But anyway, I dunno, as much as I love him, he's rarely been more than dead weight, being so slow and easy to KO by virtually anything. |
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Post by Stove on Jul 1, 2014 1:45:42 GMT
Charizard X is pretty much King Gekko Gainer... And viable addition. Although I love Flygon, my team really needs the punch of his typing and sweeper capabilities. If I go with Charizard X, he and the rest of the gekko team will go perfectly with this proclaimed theme song. The salamander shouts, the burning flame in my fist
I'll become an incandescent dragon and fly!!
The salamander roars, the Spirit will be attached onto my body
And I'll open up a new legend! Well, I do like Banette, but I think it kinda needs the mega evolution, but I'd rather have King Gekko Gainer. Not sure about ghost types, though... Which would be good here? I want to say Golurk, but I dunno... He's my third favorite Pokemon, and if it's a ghost type I need I'm glad he could fit that role. At the same time, his weaknesses are pretty terrible, and his bulk is just overall average which justifies nothing. On the other hand he has some pretty decent moves and abilities, and some resistances and immune to three common types (I mean, only one more than typical ghosts, but still). He can use Stealth Rock... I could change Skarmory to use Spikes, so I'll have both. And otherwise he has very impressive and powerful coverage with Iron Fist and tutor punches. But anyway, I dunno, as much as I love him, he's rarely been more than dead weight, being so slow and easy to KO by virtually anything. A pure ghost type or Gengar are what you'd need to replace Banette with if you do remove him to maintain the synergy. Mismagius, Gengar and Dusclops/Dusknoir are the other ones that come to mind when I think pure ghost type. Jellicent would also work if I recall, but him and the Dusk family are probably out of the question due to your dislike of stall. |
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Post by Indigo on Jul 8, 2014 0:10:57 GMT
Reverse Tatami
Gakito (Kecleon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Power Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Skill Swap
Akashic (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind/Whirlwind
- Roost
Karuma (Zoroark) (M) @ Life Orb/Focus Sash?
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 200 Atk / 92 SpA / 216 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Allrave (Ditto) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP
- Transform
-
-
-
Gatiko (Heliolisk) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Dark Pulse
- U-Turn
Suzakuo (Greninja) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Mat Block
I love this team... It's stupidly fun. It's kind of overall weak and frail, but the team has tons of options, and especially, mindgames. I think Heliolisk could be taken out for Accelgor with a support set (Encore/Spikes/Bug Buzz/Final Gambit).
Anyway, it's really fun and I've had some success with it. Zoroark adds so much insecurity with a team that already is hard to predict, and Ditto is the ultimate wildcard.
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Post by Stove on Jul 8, 2014 1:40:23 GMT
I'm glad you have fun with it...but one look at that team made me cringe.
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Post by Indigo on Jul 8, 2014 15:48:00 GMT
I've won some rounds with it... I'm not sure what counts as good players, but it really capitalizes on being unpredictable, wide movepools, and not having any clear counters besides Mach Punch which it still has options against.
Anyway, that's just for fun, I threw it together as a gimmick team but it did surprisingly decent. My main team right now is the prototype team above, but with Golurk instead of Banette (really, they're both very similar in their stats and resistances, might as well sacrifice a little to add in my third favorite Pokemon. He has amazing power and coverage, though, and goes great with Kecleon's Fake Out and Greninja's Mat Block). Thinking about changing Flygon to Charizard X, but then my team has very little support.
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Post by Metal on Jul 9, 2014 19:18:15 GMT
currently, i am once again in possession of my 3ds and my copy of y. however the interwebz access here is garbage, and so i cant wifi frequently, on the off chance you catch me on, send me a battle invite or trade thingy... maybe ill get a working team that doesnt involve mega blaziken one day  |
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Post by Indigo on Jul 9, 2014 21:04:59 GMT
I need to make my team in the actual game now... And I don't know if that's going to happen.
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Post by Stove on Jul 10, 2014 4:44:45 GMT
currently, i am once again in possession of my 3ds and my copy of y. however the interwebz access here is garbage, and so i cant wifi frequently, on the off chance you catch me on, send me a battle invite or trade thingy... maybe ill get a working team that doesnt involve mega blaziken one day If you like him, use him. What's stopping you? (And don't say smogon; don't let them rule you.) |
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Post by Indigo on Jul 10, 2014 5:34:52 GMT
Okay, I think I'm gonna go with Mismagius... Golurk's been disappointing a bit too much. And, I never heard of that Pokemon before. Seriously, how didn't I? It looks so cool. It's a mage! And plays the part! Doesn't look too bad for Doubles, with lots of support moves available, and a nice speed stat, which hopefully can make up for the lack of priority. I liked Banette a lot, but Sucker Punching and Destiny Bond feels too hit or miss for me, and that's (Shadow Weak aside) his only real attack options.
I also just remembered that I always wanted to make a team with Bisharp and Gallade. But I have no idea how to make a team that has synergy with them.
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Post by Stove on Jul 10, 2014 19:48:59 GMT
Okay, I think I'm gonna go with Mismagius... Golurk's been disappointing a bit too much. And, I never heard of that Pokemon before. Seriously, how didn't I? It looks so cool. It's a mage! And plays the part! Doesn't look too bad for Doubles, with lots of support moves available, and a nice speed stat, which hopefully can make up for the lack of priority. I liked Banette a lot, but Sucker Punching and Destiny Bond feels too hit or miss for me, and that's (Shadow Weak aside) his only real attack options. I also just remembered that I always wanted to make a team with Bisharp and Gallade. But I have no idea how to make a team that has synergy with them. Yep. Mismagius is my favorite pokemon. |
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Post by Frozazen on Jul 12, 2014 1:33:58 GMT
I'm surprised that your Heliolisk isn't running discharge, Claxus, but I guess you don't have a ground type, and only mat block really makes it worth it. The 30% paralysis is nice, though. Also I agree with everyone here saying that Smogon shouldn't be the first thing you think of when teambuilding. It should probably be the last thing to fill in holes in the team and looking for checks/counters, but I think 2 or so pokemon is sufficient to round out a team of favorites  |
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Post by Indigo on Jul 12, 2014 3:54:59 GMT
Heliolisk is depressing and can't learn Discharge.
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I made a thing... Long live Gotcha Force!!!