Persona 4 Arena

[Deleted]

Cool. Do you want to come to Tartarus? The rooms are flashing up error messages.

[Indigo]

Return of the canon rivalry battles. It's exciting when it comes down to two characters who both have tons of options, range, and mixup. Sho was breaking 4k with 50 meter... 4.5k with just his awakening super. That's why Shadow Frenzy's not a big deal. Now that I've gotten Yu down to second nature, I should start learning his OMC combos and corner stuff, where he (not Shadow, anyway) also breaks 3.5k with only 50sp. And about Shadow Frenzy... Sho has some weed hitbox, not sure why that Cross Slash kept missing, maybe it works if I delay it a bit.

Your Sho was good, maybe even better than Marie in some ways, since you rarely focus on zoning, and Sho still has similar massive normals like her and blockstring pressure, and an even better (teleport) dive attack, though I'm not sure if it's safe on block. I really started getting used to Marie;s j.C... It just doesn't work at all for you anymore if I play Yu. That move is gonna have to be done in close quarters only.

As for Junpei, actually he has some stuff I need to play around with more... Trismegistus' 2C slide is massive, and the 2D upwards dive combos from it, and that attack itself can catch you off guard. I need to get the hang of Trismegistus now, I'm realizing. I noticed how its attacks chain together more than I thought and give a lot of area control, as long as Marie's not using j.C. I need to be less afraid of throwing it out, and using the triple dive-kick thing whenever I can. Junpei's 236CD is also a very fast run, it his armor properties, and holding it down, he can just use the run without diving. Though in the end I think I still enjoy playing Yu more...

[Deleted]

Not sure what possessed me to learn Minazuki. What have I done. Oh well, I actually managed to get pretty good with him in a short space of time. I managed to learn a pretty basic combo that does a lot of damage, I just need to learn how to use his persona D attacks in tandem with teleports to make longer combos.

Or, I could actually start practicing with Marie more, since I haven't actually been using her recently except in fights against you, that's probably why my Sho seems stronger now.

Yu terrifies me. You're too good with him now, and his Shadow Frenzy combo breaks my soul.

[Deleted]

Remember back when we basically always mained low to mid tier characters? Those were the days. Actually, I probably wont pick up Marie again until the patch, because she seems to be getting a lot more useful options if the videos I've watched are anything to go by.

Fantastic Junes, I mean, matches. I had a great time, did Yu? Did I Sho you how good I've gotten with Minazuki? Help me, I think Ikutski has me under mind control.

Anyway, I'm more scared of you when you play as Shadow Yu, even though he doesn't have burst meaning I theoretically have safer combos. It's shadow frenzy, man, not to mention it takes slightly longer to get you KO'd, which I need to do before you wreck me. I feel as though I was making less mistakes with Minazuki and using more of his attacks effectively, though I still need to remember to use his command grab rather than continue a fruitless blockstring. I'm kind of Jealous of Yu's long range command grab, which you were able to use on me where it counted.

One of my favourite moments was during one of the later matches, where I Dream Fogged your DP. Oh, and when we went Nanako/Junes crazy.

[Indigo]

Sorry, got stuck cooking right after the games, so that was some good timing I guess.

So, the sad part about that DP counter super was that I actually DP'd in reaction to that super.

And even funnier, I unlocked Nanako round calls during those fights... And it was after the match that we went pink.

Anyway, I wish there was a better character for me. I don't like playing top tiers, but there's just no other characters that click with me, like Bang or Bullet. I like Junpei but I dislike clubbing weapons and he's not Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan enough, he should have kept the greatsword... But either way the only character I exceptionally like is... Yu. His (first) anime version is one of my favorite characters of all time, he's all deadpan and clear-mirror-still-water. I like Junpei and Yosuke but they have too many traits I don't like for them to be main quality.

Well, your Sho has been getting dangerous. Luckily I started getting used to his blockstrings. His aerials also easily outrange even Yu's j.2B slash. But wow, he can turn a small screw-up into 3.2k with 50(?) meter. I couldn't ninja dodge at all either, his enormous 5A always catches me... All Out Attacks always get me, despite that I'm always on guard to react to them. I'd be terrified if Sho had a better command grab since he already has amazing range and blockstrings (and zoning doesn't exist against him with that range + homing cross-up teleport). Yu's command grab is pretty mean, but his blockstrings are much more reliant on mixup and reading the opponent than pressure, and have a lot of gaps where you could just DP or dodge (pretty sure you can just DP/evade Raging Lion if I try to use it to keep up the pressure), and if I try to do 5C > 2C, there's enough of a gap between Izanagi's strikes that you can punch it, or right after a blocked Zio.

I get what you mean about Shadow Yu, but anything he does meterless barely breaks 1.4k. Sho can do 3.2k with a super, while I do 4.4k with 100sp. I mean, normal Yu is stronger since he can easily do 3k off anything with one super. And funny thing is, non-shadow Yu has access to a special move at awakening with 150sp. I hit with it two times, but fumbled the followup pretty bad, it's like inputting a precise combo during a super to do a very long sequence that's probably even longer than my Shadow Frenzy stuff. And... It does 5.5k alone. Normal Yu's Cross Slash does outrageous damage, he can do 3.8k with just a good confirm into it, and can follow up with the sword thrust super all the same, so at 100 meter he can do damage on par with SF, and still have 50sp left over.

The main thing that makes S. Yu dangerous is that Shadow Frenzy steals momentum. It can turn games around by using it to just throw out a canceled Ziodyne into a OMC, which lets me basically turn your defense into a guessing game since I can cross-up and mix-up behind the curtain of thunder, and confirm it into a super combo, or if it didn't work, I can throw out another canceled Ziodyne. It's really fun, and deadly, but I often have to sit with 100 meter to have SF when I need it so most of the rounds I'm just poking in neutral.

Well... I might try playing Ken again on the side, even though there's not much character to him. He almost seems to be like he's going to be the series' next Mary Yu. He just doesn't seem all that fun though, since he only has one skill attack, himself (which happens to be his only combo route), and the rest of his moveset is controlling Koromaru. The series needs a mid/low-tier Bang or Bullet character, too much overly successful teens.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what you mean by Ken not having much character, unless you mean 'character' to his playstyle. He's one of my favorites, and I recommend you see what he's like in story mode, even if you have to sit through the P4 story to get to that point.

Akihiko is reletively high tier and uses his fists a lot, and his appearance in this game resembles Bang, but he's probably too reserved (at least in comparision to Bang) and close range in playstyle for you.

There's always Naoto.

Yukari is like, a super sentai character and I hate fighting her.

I think Persona overall has different priorities when it comes to characters, compared to what you tend to enjoy. It's not really about over the top personalities and villains tend to be too sympathetic or scummy. The overall themes are more about adolescence/nostalgia/growing up/the themes of the individual games like Memento Mori, media portrayal and representation, and the repressed faces of seemingly normal people. It's more about the importance of human connection as opposed to the indomitable will to do what is right and just, so I can see why you might have some trouble picking out a 'perfect' character. I had the exact same problem in the origional game, since I like and appreciate but don't overall love the Persona 4 cast in a traditional fan kind of way the same way I'd sequel at the mere mention of Shinjiro or Makoto, or Yukari and Junpei being added to the roster.

I realise I haven't necessarily chosen my favourite characters in terms of personality to play in in this game, however. Minazuki is obviously a prick whose the most on the nose character representing just about everything the series ideologically opposes, for the sake of a theme which is literally social engagement vs social isolation, which has so far been more of a base for different themes rather than the central thematic conflict. However, he'll definitely get more points for me if he actually does end up being the Persona 5 protagonist, or at least being related, maybe as an anti-hero or something. His red colour scheme and the idea of him being restricted by the bonds of society seems to match up pretty well with what Atlus has told us about the game so far. (see: Emancipation trailer and some interviews) He also gets points for having a direct relation to Shuji Ikutski/Persona 3, and at least he has a composed demeanor so I don't feel like a troll in the same way I do when playing as Adachi or Terumi.

While I'm pretty fond of Marie, I don't really have the best grasp of her personality since I haven't played The Golden and the Anime seems to portray her as more of a Rei Ayanami type than the Snarky-Tsundere type that I suspect she actually is, if Ultimax and Q are anything to go by.

Wondering if I should try to learn Margaret. I did pay money for her, after all, and I seem to do ok whenever I try her in challenge or training mode. I just need to play more until a actual gameplans and consistent combos fall into place.

Been using Adachi on and off but I can't seem to get particularly high damage off of his combos. They're constructed somewhat differently to what I'm used to in a fighting game, mostly in being constructed by a lot more command grabs than you might expect, and a lot of his highest damage dealing combos being full-screen Persona control affairs.

Too many characters call for my attention, so as much as I like Labrys as a character, I think I'm going to ignore Labrys/Shadow Labrys/Shadow Labrys.

Again, hoping Theodore gets in somehow, someplace, maybe in Persona 5 arena strange-hold. The prospect of playing fiction's strongest but-monkey is too enticing.

Maybe he'll use the Jack Brothers as his Personas.

[Indigo]

I haven't gotten into the story... Haven't with Blazblue, either. Which is a shame, I'm really curious about Bang and Bullet's story, and how much more sense the linear story format makes. But when I boot up a fighter, I have nothing but the urge to train and become stronger... I judged Ken from his description and his battle/after-match quotes. Which make him out to be the next Yu without the pure-zen demeanor. Popular with everyone, borderline a prodigy, etc.. And mentioning not to underestimate him because he's a kid, every opportunity he gets. I'll be glad if he's not just kid Mary Yu then, since I was fond of his design and character and justice thing. And his chain spear and Koromaru Shishigami.

Anyway... Akihiko is a cool character, but too seriously-manly and sempai for me. Worst part is he doesn't kick. The stance and form are no good for me... Bang uses kicks for half his moves. I don't like the correlation they tried to make between them. By which I mean Akihiko has a Bang color set which looks really good, but the characters and fighting style don't click at all. Bang's gameplay is also quite honest, while Akihiko has free mix-up and insane damage off anything.

Naoto is fun, but actually one of the less intriguing characters to me. Yukari I may play time to time, I like her, but too much non-melee for me. If only she used the bow for melee like Pit...

Adachi seems like a lot of fun. Many pseudo-grapple moves like Bullet, and has tons of options and control. Amazing j.C, amazing unblockable Persona anti-air that can corner/start combos, he has literally Yu's Ziodyne super as a 5C, Junpei's Deathbound (Persona meteors down from the ceiling) as 2D which can do 2.4k ALONE. Not paying for the scumbag though. Margaret looks interesting and is as versatile as Yu. I'd prefer Elizabeth though. If you learn Margaret I'll probably learn Elizabeth more. Sho is pretty cool, I like his solo version with his 'dodge' button and pure rushdown.

By the way, how does Marie's Awakening super work? I read it's among the best in the game, and you press C/D to shoot the beams, but you usually just stand there waiting. She's getting buffed though, and I believe she's getting a great oki buff like sweep > 5C or so, rivaling the original P4A Yu oki.

Wait... That reminds me, Yu and... Minazuki are getting... Buffed? I don't even know. Most characters got even better changes though, so it looks like top tier will be less dominant.

Well, I thought about it and I think I'm done with Yu for now. Love playing him but the victories have never been as sweet and satisfying, though I enjoyed showing off during battles like cutting Personas and DPing various approaches, and going nuts with SF rapid cancels.

I've been giving Junpei too little credit recently. He basically is the Bang here. Not only his golden power-up gimmick, but he actually acts quite virtuously (from what I read about him in story, and also how he greets opponents with a bow for a fair fight), and as a self-proclaimed hero, also mentioning in victories how justice wins. Despite his baseball style he still fights pretty flashy, especially the Persona-summon/super poses. Gotta love his victory pose, too. Now that I think about it he really changed to a much more matured and Bang-like character in those three years. The thing is it's disheartening the combos you see me use are the best he's got.

I'm gonna go back to him though, putting in the work and netting wins and victory cry (WELP, TIME TO DO THIS) with him is so satisfying unlike Yu. The only gratification in Yu is that it's satisfying to win and feel calm and effortless just like Yu. But anyway, I'm also gonna start to learn Ken now, while improving with Junpei. Time to go back to the more honest characters.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it will probably take too long for you to bother, but you can watch all the story scenes from the answer to get a really good sense of Junpei's character. He's pretty much the only person with a head on his shoulders out of the entire cast during that segment of Persona 3. It would probably also be worth watching his scenes with Chidori as well, not to mention the fight against her and all the scenes surrounding that. Ultimax Junpei also gets some great scenes with the children's baseball team that he coaches.

Oh, and Ken's not much of a prodigy, at least not when compared to the rest of the cast. He's good at sports and he's decently popular, the 'just because I'm a child' thing is an extension of his arc in Persona 3 where he was much noticeably younger than the rest of the cast, but in Ultimax, he feels inadequate because Mitsuru sees him as being too young to be a proper member of the Shadow Operatives, and would prefer that he lives a normal high school life.

Marie's awakening super requires a looot of space and time. When I first started doing it, I didn't know how it worked, so you were able to break Kaguya pretty easily and that was that. I know how it works nowadays, which was how I was able to catch you out those few times, but you're wise to it now, and will break it the moment I try to pull it out. The problem is that it's very delayed, and hitting either Marie or Kaguya will cancel the attack. I can hit the buttons as fast as I can but I still have to wait for the arrows to actually start traveling, during which time you've already canceled it. The button you press determines the direction of the arrows, the idea is that I'm supposed to watch your movements and cross you up with arrows traveling in different directions, and I only get three. I never bother using it since I'm afraid you'll just use Death Bound as Junpei or Zio as Yu, unfortunately your characters have options that can destroy it pretty fast. Maybe there's a secret to the attack that I haven't figured out yet. I think I recall reading that the SB version makes Kaguya (but not Marie) invincible during the attack. That would probably be worth testing.

[Indigo]

I've learned a lot with Ken... And strangely I feel more effortless than Yu. He does an average of 2.5k off any hit-confirm... With no meter. His range is monstrous, even just his B normals. Koromaru is basically controlling a second character, like Carl, but Koromaru is a NINJA DOG. He's more independent than Nirvana and attacks near instantly, his attacks being screen-sweeping hitboxes. He easily 'detaches' to attack from any part of the screen remotely, even off-screen. He makes Ken virtually unpunishable, since he can cover any attack, including all-out-attack and whatnot. Ken can turn 5A or a ranged poke into 4k with his Awakening super...

I played Yu afterwards and it felt funny because it felt like I had to get ten times closer to do anything, without a ninja dog, needed meter to do damage, and I could actually get punished...

Speaking of which, not sure why people were saying Yu got buffed. He got a couple of good tweaks, but the translated change list shows the majority of his moves recover slower now, his best starters less safe, and his mixup is slightly weaker because of it and losing his SB version command grab.

Ken's Mediarama heals him less now (the strong version only healed 300 before?) but actually has knockback now, and can be used in combos. Koromaru is KO'd longer and can't be healed during it...

Junpei's buff list is so huge it's pretty funny. Yosuke got hit by a lot of nerfs to attack speed and lost his glide, but got some interesting changes like being able to kunai toss three times in a row.

Apparently Marie gets some P4A Yu oki. If what I read was correct, sweep > 236C is safe oki, meaning the hitbox coincides with frame 1 of wakeup so they can't even DP.

Anyway, I have to try Ken against you, and I think I've been getting better with Junpei. Still really like Yu, so I'll probably just keep playing all three, unless Ken keeps feeling more scummy than Yu. Hope Yu's nerfs make him a little more honest in 2.0. Come on, Ragna's a low tier underdog in Chrono Phantasma...

[Deleted]

Sure, I might have some time today, but I'll definitely have time tomorrow. Yet another Etrian Odyssey game arrived yesterday so I've been playing that, and while I'd say my university work has been cutting in to my play time, I'll be frank and say that it really hasn't. The time I get back home from university is usually only about an hour later than I'd usually wake up on a free day/holiday.

But yeah, I haven't really been seriously practicing with Margaret like I said I would. My version of 'practicing' is to learn a combo that I can repeat effectively, then go into the Golden Arena mode for a while, then maybe I'll go on Dustloop or GameFaqs to check out a few basic strategies. When it came to Minazuki, I was lucky that that Jiyunajp channel had a pretty good tutorial on the character, not to mention all of the gameplay videos.

But yeah, challenge mode rarely teaches me any useful combos I find. What I can pull off against a dummy isn't usually the sort of thing I can execute in a real match, not even against a CPU most of the time.

EDIT: Speaking of Ken, it may just be that I haven't given him enough attention, but when I played him, I found that he was kind of a cross between Carl and Relius when it came to how fluidly he controlled. Not as stiff as Carl, but I oddly found Koromaru a lot more difficult to operate than Ignis. In other words, Ken didn't really gel with me.

[Deleted]

Sorry about the games today. I'd been practicing in ranked so I was feeling pretty good about myself, not to mention I'd learned Minazuki's AOA combo. For some reason though I was playing really bad today, and I think the lag only accounted for about 75% of that badness. Unfortunately I also got annoyed by Ken and the 3 instant kills early on, so I probably wasn't in the best mood to play for the majority of the matches after that. Sorry, but we'll try tomorrow. Maybe I need to wait for everyone to go to bed or something.

Anyway, your Ken is too good. I don't know how to deal with him. I know Minazuki can be a bit of a painful character to fight against, but Ken takes the cake since his attacks naturally give him good spacing offering him room for healing, and he's un-DP-able in general... I'll definitely have to learn how to deal with Ken other than spamming teleport, which is the last thing I want to subject you to.

At least neither Minazuki, Yu, nor Ken are as irritating to fight as Kanji or Yukari, though. Then again I probably need to fight against more Minazukis.

[Indigo]

Got caught in a whirlwind of stuff.

Dunno what was with the lag spikes since it was fine at first and it just wavered in and away. But we got some good matches in the beginning at least. Some of my combos where whiffing though, inb4 I have to delay the spear-reel (236A/B) just like Yu's Cross Slash against Sho. But yeah, there's Ken for you. Massive normals and starting combos off of them, and Koromaru bugging away at you at any corner of the screen and in the air and making everything safe.

He's been surprisingly fun, even though he doesn't have diverse combos or attacks, his best stuff is satisfying to do with the duo coordination and all the reeling into mech punches, and he has pretty stylish animations. Still, I don't feel like I'm putting a lot of work in with him, even less than Yu. Just feels like I simply outrange everything and lock you down with a godlike puppet dog.

His main weakness is HP nearly as low as Elizabeth (just 500 more), and not having any way to escape pressure besides DP because his normals are slower than others. Also, you should attack Koromaru. Or rather, you have to. Hit him with 2A or whatever, and then he's knocked down for a few seconds. If you have the time, you could just sit there spamming 2A on Koromaru to wreck him. Generally after blocking a Koromaru attack you have enough time to hit him at least once unless the two are working in tandem up close, just be careful of the near fullscreen 236B from Ken. Besides that, Ken is also super subject to evasive rolls. It can punish even a simple 5B from him, I think his blockstrings even have gaps, but it kind of depends. If I expect you'll try to dodge I can cover with Koromaru. But Ken himself has a huge delay in attacks if they whiff. But it also means he's susceptible to DPs if there's a gap. Like if I use all-out-attack and you block it, I'd use 5C for Koromaru to cover it, but you could DP so you beat out Koromaru and punish Ken at the same time. Oh, and Koromaru has a hitbox, so... He can theoretically be used to your advantage, since you can cancel attacks off him like hitting a player. But that means he also eats some projectiles like a meatshield.

But yeah, when I use Yu it strangely feels like a more fair fight. He may be top tier but at least fighting him is more like a kendo match. He's extremely solid and powerful but has no real quirks aside from his slide which is a free Fatal Counter on block and doesn't start combos without meter. His Raging Lion dive overhead is a little dirty but the fast version doesn't combo without meter, either. Speaking of which, that move will be Fatal Counter on 2.0, and the fast version got nerfed.

Oh, Junpei... I'm getting the hang of using Trismegistus better but he still has not much going for him, it's just annoying how every finisher knocks you away where he sucks and can only approach with j.B, which got DP'd so bad today, or got me some insane counter damage from that blade wave super... And I still have no idea how to get out of Sho's blockstrings once I block. The only gap is when you cancel to your Persona, or do the rising thing, but you started learning to jump cancel that up-down slash so I couldn't DP or even 2B it this time.

Oh, and behold the Narukami instant kills. The Junpei one was actually as planned though, and it was so satisfying. I can feel it, Al's across the map, he's going to teleport... WELP TIME TO DO THIS. Did I ever mention Time to Make History is Junpei's theme? Step on up to the plate, you know... And one of Junpei's idle quotes is "Watch me make history!"

But man, I dunno, picking one of them to main is so difficult.

[Deleted]

Actually, I have the Instant Kill theme set to Fog. I really need to learn the best time to teleport, I should have used ground 2D.

But yeah don't main Ken. I know I can't control your actions (yet) or who you want to main (yet) but don't pick Ken. I don't know, maybe it will be enjoyable learning how to counter him at least. Those tips are helpful but it will probably take a while for me to really internalise them. I need to calm down so I don't drop Minazuki's basic combo that I've practiced about ten million times against dummies, CPUs, and humans. I don't think I ever got to use his wave super one once yesterday (EDIT: In a combo), even when I had the meter for it I'd end with the DP and waste my health for no good reason.

Forgot to mention that I tried seriously learning Margaret but she's not my type of character. It's the normals. They're too slow. Well, 5B and such aren't too bad, but I can't wrap my head around 5B cancelling into a 5A for some reason. I might try using her against you just because, but it would be swell if you picked a character you're not so good with if I ever do try.

It does feel like I should learn someone other than Minazuki (speaking of which, you should call Personaless Sho Sho while Tsukuyomi Sho is called Minazuki. It's a community thing enforced by the game, you'll notice in some places that the first or second names are all capitalised in various game menus in order to distinguish between the two characters.) while I wait for Marie 2.0... I tried learning Sho, and his basic combo is surprisingly similar, but I need to learn his neutral. I guess I'll try out a bunch of different characters, though Adachi is looking most likely at this point. He's the character I've put the most effort into besides Marie and Minazuki.

[Stove]

Jan 17, 2015 1:36:21 GMT Indigo said:

Got caught in a whirlwind of stuff.

Dunno what was with the lag spikes since it was fine at first and it just wavered in and away. But we got some good matches in the beginning at least. Some of my combos where whiffing though, inb4 I have to delay the spear-reel (236A/B) just like Yu's Cross Slash against Sho. But yeah, there's Ken for you. Massive normals and starting combos off of them, and Koromaru bugging away at you at any corner of the screen and in the air and making everything safe.

He's been surprisingly fun, even though he doesn't have diverse combos or attacks, his best stuff is satisfying to do with the duo coordination and all the reeling into mech punches, and he has pretty stylish animations. Still, I don't feel like I'm putting a lot of work in with him, even less than Yu. Just feels like I simply outrange everything and lock you down with a godlike puppet dog.

His main weakness is HP nearly as low as Elizabeth (just 500 more), and not having any way to escape pressure besides DP because his normals are slower than others. Also, you should attack Koromaru. Or rather, you have to. Hit him with 2A or whatever, and then he's knocked down for a few seconds. If you have the time, you could just sit there spamming 2A on Koromaru to wreck him. Generally after blocking a Koromaru attack you have enough time to hit him at least once unless the two are working in tandem up close, just be careful of the near fullscreen 236B from Ken. Besides that, Ken is also super subject to evasive rolls. It can punish even a simple 5B from him, I think his blockstrings even have gaps, but it kind of depends. If I expect you'll try to dodge I can cover with Koromaru. But Ken himself has a huge delay in attacks if they whiff. But it also means he's susceptible to DPs if there's a gap. Like if I use all-out-attack and you block it, I'd use 5C for Koromaru to cover it, but you could DP so you beat out Koromaru and punish Ken at the same time. Oh, and Koromaru has a hitbox, so... He can theoretically be used to your advantage, since you can cancel attacks off him like hitting a player. But that means he also eats some projectiles like a meatshield.

But yeah, when I use Yu it strangely feels like a more fair fight. He may be top tier but at least fighting him is more like a kendo match. He's extremely solid and powerful but has no real quirks aside from his slide which is a free Fatal Counter on block and doesn't start combos without meter. His Raging Lion dive overhead is a little dirty but the fast version doesn't combo without meter, either. Speaking of which, that move will be Fatal Counter on 2.0, and the fast version got nerfed.

Oh, Junpei... I'm getting the hang of using Trismegistus better but he still has not much going for him, it's just annoying how every finisher knocks you away where he sucks and can only approach with j.B, which got DP'd so bad today, or got me some insane counter damage from that blade wave super... And I still have no idea how to get out of Sho's blockstrings once I block. The only gap is when you cancel to your Persona, or do the rising thing, but you started learning to jump cancel that up-down slash so I couldn't DP or even 2B it this time.

Oh, and behold the Narukami instant kills. The Junpei one was actually as planned though, and it was so satisfying. I can feel it, Al's across the map, he's going to teleport... WELP TIME TO DO THIS. Did I ever mention Time to Make History is Junpei's theme? Step on up to the plate, you know... And one of Junpei's idle quotes is "Watch me make history!"

But man, I dunno, picking one of them to main is so difficult.

Come on Clax, I'd think you of all people would know that, in a match, tiers mean nothing. It's about the matchup.
Low tiers, while not very common, can have the advantage in certain high tier matchups. From what I've seen, Ken isn't even a bad character anyway (not as good as Yu, but still good.)
In addition, you said it yourself; Al doesn't even try hitting Koromaru. That alone makes your matchup instantly better.
Basically, main who you want. Don't main who you main for the sake of having a fairer fight. (since Al clearly doesn't want you to main him.)
If you main Yu, hey, that's fine. Same for anyone else. Just don't let others get in the way of maining who you want to main.

[Deleted]

Nah, it's mostly a joke. I wont begrudge him for using Ken. I just have to admit that I feel much safer when he uses Yu or Junpei.

I think what Claxus is talking about isn't so much tiers, so much as how it feels to use the character. Ken has a lot of range so it's easy to get hits in and start combos and block strings, and Claxus personally finds his combos too easy (which I would probably agree with) most of the complexity comes in operating Koromaru, and when fighting against Ken, Koromaru is a major factor who is surprisingly easy to forget about when you're worried about 2/3 screen spears (at least if you're dumb like me) Koromaru isn't like Ignis or Nirvana where they're larger than the characters who operate them, Koromaru is a tiny little bugger constantly getting under your feet.

I have an easier time against Yu, who is top tier for basically being good at everything. He has high damage and good neutral and defensive options. Ken isn't as good in close range neutral and in defense, especially since his DP is easily punished, but his long range and pressure is so good that it doesn't matter as much to someone like me.

But yeah, thanks for the talk Steve. In truth the 'main who you want to main' thing applies more to Minazuki, who I'm currently maining. If you spend some time on Dustloop you'll see that he seems to breed the most animosity in the player base. I think people mostly hate his JB and 5A, both of which are getting nerfed in 2.0 anyway. Minazuki has a lot of the options common to a top tier in a similar manner to Yu, but he's also fairly punishable. Claxus proved that you can punish his teleport with an IK from the lowest of low tiers, of all things.

Speaking of which, is it just me, or is Junpei a pretty popular choice of character for a low tier? Much more than Labrys or Yukiko at least.

[Stove]

^Kudos to you for maining him. I know (though you know it even better since this isn't the first time you've done it) how much flak you can get for using a character people in the community hate (Brawl MK, Sm4sh LM, etc.), so I'm glad you feel that way.

*Steve's PS3 update*
New 3DS coming out soon. This = portable Xenoblade and C-stick which = I'm not getting a PS3 soon. Will aim to get one before the end of the year though. I seriously want to play a more traditional fighter, since Smash is so defensive-oriented, but nintendo tells me no.

[Deleted]

Minazuki is best Waifu, sorry Marie.

Shouldn't you complete the Wii version of Xenoblade before you spend all that money on another copy with no added content? Just my 3 cents and a torn up $2 bill covered in gravy.

[Stove]

Jan 17, 2015 23:42:47 GMT @alberenza said:

Minazuki is best Waifu, sorry Marie.

Shouldn't you complete the Wii version of Xenoblade before you spend all that money on another copy with no added content? Just my 3 cents and a torn up $2 bill covered in gravy.

Well, you know, it doesn't even come out until April.

[Indigo]

Yeah, Junpei is fairly popular despite his rock bottom status. It can probably be credited to his character, since he was always a pretty realistic yet charismatic character, and this time around he's Da Man and a pretty great guy, plus he's really fun and fairly simple to play. But really, it's not saying much when low tier just means 5 characters. Most of the cast can be juxtaposed together in a tier list, but characters like Junpei and Labrys stand out at the bottom since they clearly lack options everyone else has. But heck, even Junpei can dominate a game, the problem is his gimmick is 2/3 negatives, and needs a (near perfect) round or more just to power up, while lacking any options or speed to approach. That's why he got a massive bufflist, anyway. Steve, just curious, where were you getting information that Ken is high tier and stuff?

I'm not much of a believer in tiers, but honestly, sometimes it's just true. The thing with Yu is he has no bad matchup. And he's no Mario, either, he has above average options, played well he's low risk or safe, and he can pull off damage that puts Kanji to shame. At the same time though, I find he's a bit respectable at least, since he's no Meta Knight or pre-patch Kokonoe, or Azrael (in ease of use for huge damage). He's a solid sword user with strong options and otherwise still needs to approach and open up enemies in neutral with no real tricks, and he needs risky starters or a corner to do his main damage, and his blockstrings are limited despite great mix-up. Still, he hasn't got much of a weakness at all, and has the tools for anything along with damage.

Overall I think when you move past the bottom 5, it's a pretty balanced game. I think Yu would be lower if he had his damage scaling nerfed, because really the outrageous thing about him is the ridiculous damage he can do, which I haven't bothered to learn and probably don't want to to keep my skill in check. He got a lot of nerfs in other areas though, so we'll see. Yosuke is the one that really was scummy...

Honestly I think I'll just stick with Yu after all. I like Ken but I like Kendo more. Not a chain spear that goes across the screen and starts combos from there, coupled with the infinite pressure of a ninja dog anywhere on screen. I still like Junpei, but even with buffs his batting style isn't doing it for me. With Yu I feel his playstyle resonates best, I always react and predict so much better with him.

Okay, anyway... Good games tonight Al. I saw a little progress there with you starting to cancel combos before I could punish, and canceling into command grabs, and also some use of his full-screen Persona and some crazy air combos bouncing me around. Problem was you're so hyper-aggressive... In our final matches I started exploiting it a lot so you could see. I would just do empty approaches and send you DPing to no avail, or I started spamming my own DP on your wake-up since you more often than not mash 5A or DP on wake-up.

Moon Smasher, you use it a bit too much, and I'm not just saying that because taking 4.5k from it makes me cry, it just only worked 10% of the time for you. You should have used Dream Fog more often when using a super in pressure since it turns you into an invisible cross-up ninja and lets you gain more meter for capitalizing on it. Also a little safer, and Moon Smasher can't even be OMC'd. The random supers, though... They're holding you back. They don't work often because I play more cautious when I see you have 50sp+. I never use them randomly unless I plan to sacrifice another 50sp for OMC. The one Ziodyne I used with less than 50sp got me killed.

Also, lol, the instakill battle in one match. I just realized Sho and Yu do the same thing in their IKs.

Well, I have tons of experience fighting Adachi, I know him to the point I can Zio his 5D on reaction, and use my 2B to cut Magatsu Izanagi above my head when I see Adachi doing 2D. Part of why I beat you so easily and started using other characters. I'm not going to say much right now since I've already gone on a long rant here, but I can offer some advice for him. But for starters, 2C is air unblockable, and can start combos if you land it on the ground, by hop(down+R1) canceling into j.C, which bounces them back down to Adachi and looks awesome. And not sure if you know, landing Heat Riser buffs Adachi's power and defense by 10% for the round, and hitting with his Awakening Magastu Mandala buffs his Persona for the round, making every attack it does inflict a different status, including supers (in 2.0, each Persona attack will do TWO status per hit). His 5D is also... Kind of a big trade. It's almost exactly like Yu spending 100 meter to cancel Ziodyne, but the startup sucks, the main problem being it gives 20sp to the opponent if they block it. If I was Shadow Yu I'd have a field day blocking that. And get the hang of Ghastly Wail, it's a command grab super, the C version activates in 0 frames after the super flash. Needless to say it leads to unblockable setups and, between that and unblockable 2C, he has a godlike corner game. And... Whew I'm done here, j.C is love and life for Adachi.

[Stove]

I used LK's tier list for reference, along from what I've seen.