Persona 4 Arena

[Deleted]

SCREW STRATEGY, USING HIM ANYWAY.
Thanks for the advice though.

Well, if you want my reasoning, Teddie's best stat is luck, which is only really good for inflicting/avoiding status effects, but his speed doesn't make that particuarly viable, so either Ken or Naoto are better choices for that kind of support unit. His magic and strength is lacking, which gives him a lack-luster offence. Despite this, he is given both Bufudyne and Mabufudyne in his default skill set, which is kind of a waste in this Q, especially against bosses (not to mention, Nifelheim is in this game, which is the best ice skill, so you might as well give that to someone else with better support skills for more useful slots since Teddie doesn't get ice amp/boost). He learns Samarecarm, too, which is probably his best default skill, but his speed means that he might be killed before he can revive anyone. Amrita would be good early game, fully healing one ally along with their ailments and binds, but since it's his ultimate skill, he learns it at level 55, when it stops being useful because you have much better healing skills such as Mediaharn and Fuuka's prayer. Q tries to balance each character so that virtually any team set-up is viable, but I really wouldn't recomend Teddie. But hey, that may just make the game more fun and challenging to work around his short comings, so who knows.

I wont tell you my team set up, but you are forced to use the MC you pick at the beginning for the whole game. Make sure you use both MCs when the group comes together though, if you do, you'll likely figure out when you can stop using one of them when the time comes. They're both good though, so I kept them both for the whole game.


Wow... the episode Adachi DLC was an astonishingly good piece of work, I cried. The main story (at least the P4 half, since I haven't started the P3 side yet) didn't feel up to par to Persona standards, somewhat underwhelming. Seeing things from Adachi's perspective, however, I realise that he's basically at the heart of the story. Not quite a protagonist, and not quite an anti-hero, either. The main cast are already saintly in their belief in the ultimate bonds of friendship Adachi openly rejects, and Sho Minazuki/Kagustuchi represent the extreme isolation that Adachi used to desire so badly. In essence, Kagustuchi is Adachi's shadow in a metaphorical sense (and it is a shadow, just not specifically his), with Minauki/Sho being the mouth piece- the irresponsible, snarky brat who just wants the world to be exactly to his liking. "He reminds me of myself from about a year ago," and in one scene with Sho, the 'I accept my shadow' music from Persona 4 is playing to clue us in. The writers knew what they were doing.

Adachi feels chained down by the world and absolutely hates it, but acknowledges that it's something you have to maintain ties with, and even if those bonds feel like chains, that it's up to you what you make of them, how you put them to use. He also doesn't want to shirk responsibility for his actions, either, despite his horrible treatment in prison, he just wants to live out his sentence, and he doesn't want to make an already complicated supernatural case even more complicated, partly out of empathy for the cops and partly out if his own acceptance of his loss, which he calls 'his rules'. He doesn't want anyone to die on either side during Ultimax, because that would indicate that a 'true killer' is hanging around, which would no longer make him the prime suspect.

The point is, Ultimax is Adachi's emotional struggle, the two opposing forces of friendship and isolation tugging at him, and he hates both, taking no joy in the kid's narrow sited, naive, and sugar-coated view of the world, and the force that believes in remaking a world he sees as broken, corrupt, and boring. In the end, he chooses neither, choosing to live for himself, whilst also taking responsibilities for his crimes, deciding to no longer think of the world as a place that should just be destroyed if he doesn't like it, and that people can't disconnect from reality and the people that inhabit it, even if they want to. (which he does)

I find this extremely poignant story telling. Adachi is still a miserable person who has committed several murderers, has encouraged many more attempted murders, and has tried to destroy the world with all-powerful deities. In many ways, he hasn't really changed that much. He still thinks the same way, he still acts the same way to other people with his sarcastic humour. (much of his dialogue and inner monologue has a lot of wit and self-awareness to it that's mostly missing in the rest of the game) He doesn't have a revelation every other character in the series does when accepting their shadow or during social links- he's not a teenager, so his changes are so subtle that even he barely notices them.

The part that made me cry? Dojima comes to visit him, despite the fact that Adachi is a criminal who betrayed his trust. Dojima still cares for him, even if it seems stupid to Adachi. They can still crack jokes with and at each other, and more importantly, they understand each other on a basic level. Maybe the chains of relationships aren't so bad after all. Every time I start to underestimate Atlus they always spring back- how the h*** do that? I think it's the fans shouting 'milking!' At every spin-off, honestly, though I don't blame them. I they're taking all the right moves when it comes to extending the life of a franchise, however, not only giving us fan-service nostalgia, but writing that's up to standards, too, and plenty of different gameplay ideas, variations, and styles. Adachi's talk of chains and societal bonds combined with the red motif of the game in general reminds me of the marketing for Persona 5, too, which is supposedly going to be about societal chains. There's a lot of world and thematic building here that I'm really looking forward to seeing get paid off in P5.

Episode Adachi was witter, better paced, and packed with much more emotional resonance and thematic weight than the main story, all while re-using a fair amount of the main story scenes with only minor changes and edits here and there to give us Adachi's monologue and actions in-between events. And it's DLC. You have to buy Adachi. Sure he was free for the first week in the US, but still. I'm really sad that some people who play this game will never bother to sit through episode Adachi. Probably shouldn't have locked the best part of the story mode behind a pay-wall, Atlus.

[Deleted]

The lag has been messing with my timing and inputs so bad that at the worst moments possible, it can sometimes feel like my controller has broken again. In peaceful moments, it works just fine.

Played some games with Claxus against his Junpei, where I appear to have a slight edge for once. The three round games Claxus has set up benefit Junpei a fair bit, although he doesn't seem able to activate Victory Cry fast enough, where I've seen some Junpei players able to get the required 10 runs in the first round. Claxus' combos and timing with his supers also seems sub-par, but he reallyunderstands Trismagistus screen control. I wasn't even aware that Junpei could send the persona behind your opponent for an attack from behind. That never ceased to catch me off guard, although Marie seems very capable of using Kaguya to break it if I'm playing well enough. I also like that I'm occasionally given more time for set ups then I do against Naoto and Ken.

EDIT: Of course after he eats, Claxus comes back better than ever, especially in the way he DPs my extremely flawed block string. When the lag starts to effect my gameplay (if you've ever seen me try to use 236B in neutral, you'll know it wasn't intentional) I force myself to start playing defensively and start zoning until it gets better, a role which Marie isn't the best suited to. Of course, a lot of the time it's simply Claxus outplaying me, but when the controls feel good and luck is on my side I can pull off incredible feats like that perfect in the last match. It felt sooo good to see that trophy pop up, even though you won all the other 3 (I'm glad you didn't IK me at least)

Good games! Your Junpei saw improvement at the end there. I didn't even notice you going into Victory Cry during the last match, so you seemed to be learning how to activate that earlier too. I need to work on integrating Marie's other combos and attacks, and I've especially got to drop that bad habit of using 236B in block-strings. I-It just flows so naturally from 5BB! Stupidjerkihateyou!

[Indigo]

I don't think three rounds give me an advantage... Junpei is the worst character in the game without Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan. And after that, he just becomes average. Anyway, that was also my first gameplay with Junpei, outside of running up to Challenge 22 with him. So naturally I was fumbling a lot of inputs and sometimes not even sure what I was doing... But I'm getting the hang of him now, and I just learned he has a dive kick in that last match.

Speaking of dive kicks... WHY?! Why does Marie get a dive kick half the size of the screen that gives a good frame advantage on block which leads to mix up... And with priority that beats out almost anything I throw, it's apparently just weak to anti-air moves. It destroys any Persona attack I attempt (I was crying because Triasndiasms kept getting destroyed every time I sent it to fly), and so does the light rain thing. Though luckily his Persona attack that crushes from above seems immune. Anyway, I'm not complaining, but that dive is insane. I gotta learn to deal with it better, but it's alright since most of the rest of her moveset is lackluster... Except that unpunishable super argh

But yeah, you've gotten better with Marie. That dive attack during combos also gets me a lot when I try to DP or evade through a blockstring... But I really started abusing counters whenever I saw you jump up with that high-drop purse thing, that's definitely not a blockstring, though I know you're not exactly doing it on purpose. You were doing pretty good at just backing out during your attack gaps sometimes to avoid getting countered.

I'm pretty sure I'm maining Junpei though. After giving him a go, I just feel really at home with that Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan and a very neutral-centric game like Bang/Bullet. Trigoaoastelus is also my favorite Persona in the series, that thing's like a Freedom Gundam... And it's ridiculously fun in this game because of how it can position and fly around. Most of its attacks have a massive delay for Junpei though, but it's fine since he does cool poses. I need to start working on combos now, and getting more runs. And learning his supers, they're all kinda weird and timing based (I totally kept striking out on that firey ball super). And I kept doing the wrong one later on... I relied on his DP more than I wanted to, though I guess that invincible, time-able homerun swing is one of his stronger points.

[Deleted]

Yeah, the timing on the supers felt weird when I used him in challenge mode. Marie's persona attacks and specials (if I manage to hit her awakening super it's pretty much guaranteed huge damage) are great, but her normal attacks and zoning options can be kind of a pain to get around some times. But she has other attacks that I rarely use, I just can't figure out the best ways to put them in my game plan, since most of my combos end with Marie in the air, and she needs to be on the ground in order for me to pull off her other attacks.

3 or more rounds are good for Junpei because Fu-Rin-Ka-Victory Cry carries over between rounds, as I'm sure you've noticed. The more rounds, the more time Junpei has to activate it, and subsequently reap the benefits of it. I do think Junpei and Elizabeth are severely underrated (Have you seen Elizabeth's new debilitate attack? It's the most range inducing thing I've had to deal with from the CPU. I Hate it.) especially considering Trismagistus' fantastic screen control. I suppose it's not a matter of the two of them being bad, but the rest of the cast simply being better in most respects.

[Indigo]

The low tier characters aren't bad, they just lack good or safe options to excel in neutral and opening up opponents, and maximizing damage (i.e. Mary Yue). The thing about Junpei is that he's the weakest in the game, and once powered up, he doesn't really become capable of huge damage or anything, just averagely strong combos that other character can do without resources. I don't think an extra round is much of an advantage since even though his runs carry over, he actually needs them to really fight, or to combo at all. And once I learn more he can usually pull it off in a good first match, or early second which really just evens things out, he doesn't get any new opening options or anything.

Trasimdases control is really good though, but there's like a second delay between the button press and the attack, and then like another second of endlag... You can probably just run forward and punish me if I set my Persona behind you and try to attack with it again. Same with the crash-down attack, you saw how you punished me at fullscreen a few times. Really rewarding stuff though, especially that three-kick attack. The thing's easy to break, too I don't know why you didn't try that at all. It's a huge target and just lingers around sometimes. I couldn't do much more than the crash-down against Marie though... Her dive and lights eats all.

Oh, and Elizabeth isn't bad either, she just has glaring flaws. I remember everyone thought she was OP in the first game... She got buffs this time but it's still the same. She's a glass cannon. And once you learn her tricks and how to deal with and punish them, it's easier to take her out because she has very low HP.

[Deleted]

Poor Elizabeth's HP... I remember a time when the final boss of Persona 3 only had 2000 HP compared to Elizabeth's 20000. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

I do try to hit Trismagistus when I have a spare moment but I tend to be watching Junpei, so I often forget in the heat of the moment. But frequently, when the animation has ended and the persona is just hanging there I frequently berate myself for not simply tapping a once to give you a hard time, since it usually ends up right in front of me when it attacks from behind. But yeah, it's a heat of the moment, difference in focus kind of thing. Since Tris goes off screen so often as well, sometimes I'm too scared to punish Junpei because I'm not entirely sure where the Persona is going to attack me from. I should probably start assuming that 'not in purse-thwacking range of Junpei' is a fair bet. I could always use my card super to punish from a distance too, I suppose, then I could switch to rain and start restoring dribbles of HP if I need it. I think it starts snowing if a round ends while it's raining? Snow is probably the most immediately useful weather effect.

[Indigo]

Maybe today's not a good day... Dunno why the lag was so bad. I could barely do anything with Junpei with all that delay. And you could barely do anything against Yukari, I know...

[Deleted]

Something wrong Claxus? The lag seemed worse than usual, and then you disbanded the room fairly quickly. Also, we've got to make it a habit to go to the lobby.

Can't really say anything about your gameplay yet, as your early performances with Junpei could have just been because of the lag, I know it screwed me over.

EDIT: Although yes, in the case of Yukari, it was the lag combined with her insane zoning ability. I'm fairly sure that the lag isn't a problem on my end, since no one else is using the wi-fi but me, and I make sure to put the computer to sleep before we start any matches.

[Indigo]

Yeah, it was probably here, but it's not something I really have control over. I quit early since it was pretty intolerable... I was struggling to just approach with air dashes with j.B because of the delay, and I couldn't even do stuff like 5AA > 2C because the delay kept making me do his full autocombo and stuff. I know that my Junpei is a lot better than before and I know a lot of combos and better zoning, how to get a lot of runs and stuff, but it was just too laggy tonight.

[Deleted]

Wanna try again? The lag seemed to get better after the first few matches. If it's still too bad after one extra match, we'll just call it quits I guess. I'll hang around in Tartarus for a bit.

[Indigo]

And no one's there...

[Deleted]

I am now! I was waiting there, but for some reason, despite the fact that Tartarus is desolate on most occasions, the moment I enter I start attracting other players like moths to a flame. Go back to Junes where you belong!

[Deleted]

Lag is bet- I INSTANT KILLED CLAXUS!

*Ahem*

During the break, I'll comment. Your Junpei is certainly much better. You just seem to execute better, though I didn't see much variation in your general playstyle with him, but yeah, execution is key. I'm starting to predict Trismagistus smashes from above, but sometimes that move is so fast that it will hit me anyway. It's as useful to use as Marie's j.C

Looking forward to seeing how I'll do against your Yukari, right now I'm pretty lost.

EDIT: Yep, Yukari is a pain, even with Wicked eye. Guuuuuh...

Still, some real good games with Junpei. Sorry to leave you like that when you seemed so eager, but it's nearly 2am, I'm still recovering, and I'd like to go to bed. I'll talk more with you in the morning! Hope to have some games with you tomorrow as well.

[Indigo]

Matchup sucks. That's how I always feel... Marie's normals outrange Junpei's and have better mixup, he can't punish her super, and her Persona attacks all out-prioritize Trismegistus... And especially whenever you decided to zone I couldn't get in at all. Most progress I made was reacting with homerun swings to your j.C dives, but that didn't do me a lot of good. And when I got a good flow a burst takes it all back.

The main problem I had though was capitalizing on knockdown. Your habit of attacking on wake-up is a very bad one, but it gets me every single time... I react visually to the white flash so with the slight lag I always miss the timing to hit you on wake-up, where you would have been countered every single time unless it's a DP.

Besides that which is very frame-tight, the lag was almost unnoticeable which was good. I can't say I see much of a difference in your play though... I felt like I improved, though it wasn't too noticeable since poor Junpei needs heaps of momentum, and gets Outs whenever he enters hitstun which makes things even harder. But on a few good matches I racked up 10 runs pretty quick. I think I'm better at using Trismegistus to create opportunities, too, so long as I can sneak him out when a dive or light arrows aren't coming.

Playing Yukari was nice for a change because it felt like I could read you and easily break those evil dives and stuff, and force you to play the rushdown I always feel with Junpei. She's so fun to play with all her zoning and mobility. Her close range game isn't too bad either, but her 5A and 2A have pathetic range, and she has HP almost as low as Elizabeth. You probably should use empty super jumps wit blocking to inch forward against her. Dives or running won't work except with good reads.

[Deleted]

After the first two matches with Yukari, I actually went on dustloop while you away to look up the matchup. The suggestion was to use evil eye to block Yukari's projectiles, which is useless, since Yukari has a full-screen multi-hit projectile attack. I don't have enough time to put up the cloud either, which they also suggested. Apparently the arrow rain is supposed to work well, but you always hit me in the middle of the animation. Best I can do is inch forward.

I felt like the biggest improvement that I've made was with the presents. I still need to learn when's best to use them, but I noticed yesterday that pressing A or B while using the present causes it to instantly come out, whereas previously I had been using it with a ridiculously slow start up. Pressing C causes a giant Igor to pop out, but it's only good as an anti-air, so it's very situational.

Otherwise, good games. The match-up may swing in Marie's favour, but your Junpei still feels like a threat to me.

[Indigo]

I have reached... Enlightenment! Those games were wonderfully lagless. I've been training a ton with Yu lately, I've been itching for some dueling, and I'm glad you finally played... Yu feels so comfy to play. he has all the options I like (okay, I mean, he has everything, but still). When I go back to Junpei, I wonder why any shadow character (20% less damage) outdamages him even in victory cry, and have much more options to approach, whereas Junpei has nothing much but j.B or setting up the slow Trismegistus dives.

But yeah, Shadow Yu I mean. I kept accidentally picking the normal one sometimes since it doesn't the save the selection. Apparently the shadows are all worse than their originals. I always loved playing Yu in the original, so I'm glad I can play him and I feel better that I can main a 'lesser' version of him, since I disliked playing him because he was not only popular but also the best character (and is now only second to Yosuke). I know a lot less damage and no burst and stuff hurts them, but I dunno, I enjoy the heck out of Shadow Frenzy, it's like Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan... It's so fun going home with Yu's trinity where he chains all three supers (it's not even the strongest he can do with Shadow Frenzy), and I'm happy I ended our matches with it, it's so crazy shonen and stylish.

But seriously, I don't know why they're considered so worse, they feel on par but a little different. Every character has some crazy Shadow Frenzy combos, even Junpei (though his kinda suck aside from getting tons of bats, go figure). Then again, the times I accidentally picked normal Yu I was doing absurd damage off regular combos, and shadow characters unload their SP for 4~k while other characters can do 2.8kk twice with 50sp. With the right plays Yu can easily break 3k with 50sp. Heck, non-shadow Yu has a special install awakening he can use at 150sp, which is some insane combo that does 5.5k, and you can combo into that super. In any case, I feel a lot more zen when I play Yu, I can play at my own pace and calmly wait for your j.Cs and not have to rushdown with a little bat. Sometimes I feel like my options are a little too good with that overhead dive and zio car, though... But I tried to restrict myself from abusing those since I want to put some real work in like Junpei and they're hard-punishable if they fail.

By the way, Labrys was wat. 4.5k off... Something. It's funny because that's like Elizabeth's entire health bar. Also it was funny when I jumped and air stalled, then got hit way up by the super anyway. I thought I'd have an easy time with that matchup, but Labrys mops the floor with Elizabeth's health... You did pretty good with her. You know what you're doing, but you should start learning her combos off the rocket punch and her projectiles and other stuff, and... In general, avoid the habit of using supers as reversals, Marie can get away with it a bit with her long range card and unpunishable(?) aura thing... But not Labrys. But even then I was ninja running past Marie's cards.

Your Marie was a little better, those blockstrings man. You stopped using the overhead purse thing and started using lows, and then started mixing in all-out-attacks. They're not airtight so I started evading them or using reversals, but I have no other option in her blockstrings, so you could use that to bait and punish or grab during my evasive roll. Also you blocked half the time on wake-up which is a lot better. Though Marie's pretty good at mashing out on wake-up with those amazing normals.

Anyway... I'm rambling off again after matches like usual. This is hilariously tl;dr. Hope to see you train soon since you haven't played in quite a while, while I've been practicing every day. Junpei's probably an aside for now... Shadow Yu hero combos make me feel like PERSONA.

[Deleted]

(Re-posted from other thread)

Best part was when Rise almost broke the game.

Decided to try my hand at Labrys today, because I finished the story mode, like, all of it, and I realised that Labrys is awesome. So is her P3FMC colour palette, and so is her Lambda colour, which I used on the Persona. Labrys is really coming into her own as a character, I hope she has a role in Persona 5. Hell, Minazuki is going to have a huge role in future games, I can tell, so it's definitely not out of the question.

Anyway, good games. I was caught off guard by you learning Yu/Mostly Shadow Yu, and him actually being your best character now. He's just great at everything. I felt that Marie was better today, despite the fact that I literally haven't practiced with her since our last match. Now I just need to learn some combos with Labrys and we'll be set. Then again, Shadow Labrys was my main in the first game, so maybe I should pick things up with her. I mean, Shadow Labrys is actually helps out Labrys and the others in story mode, she's becoming the new Teddie or something.

It's always demoralizing to be caught (frequently) in a 3-part shadow berserk combo. It's almost as bad as a bear-serk combo, but you have to be playing as Teddie to do that.

EDIT: Yeah, I felt pretty bad when playing Labrys sometimes, since I so frequently relied on her auto-combo, very rarely switching it up. Did you know about her Axe gimmick? When the Axe is red, it pretty much means one hit = death.

Oh, and your Junpei was still really good. One of the most epic matches for me was when I played The Almighty, that song makes anything sound amazing. I think Yu is much more dangerous than Yosuke, I felt no fear or difficulty when I fought him. Or maybe you're just out of practice with him.

[Indigo]

I still haven't played Yosuke since I got the game... So yeah. Basically he can turn anything into a good combo, and also has amazing mixup while remaining completely safe. I wasn't gliding either, he has a special input where he sort of airdashes downwards a bit while turning around. He glides over your head and does instant cross-up with j.A. I mean... He also has unblockable setups, can confirm his kunai projectiles into a full-screen super... Sukujaja makes him even faster, and gives him a ridiculous 5A and extra super with massive damage. Overall he's much faster than Yu, with mix-up so good it turns into a guessing game (you have to hold towards him to block glide crossup), unblockable options, safe dive attack leading to combos, other stuff like air-to-ground teleport low and crossup moonsaults, unpunishable, Sukujaja virtually guarantees a combo, huge damage off any confirm... To top it off he has the best DP in the game.

Good Yosuke player here.
And an extra, look at 48:35.

He's... Just really good, and his offensive is better than Yu's, who at least has to work for the mixup and getting close. Yosuke is a built-in mixup machine and has crazy speed to fill the gap, and even a projectile-immune dash attack that starts combos fullscreen.

I like Junpei, it's just he feels so limited and punishable. His gimmick requires to hit and gets 'reset' by getting hit, but he has a hard time hitting to begin with. He has no real option to approach, isn't very powerful, rather slow, and not much range either. No mix-up at all. He spends a round and a half just doing tiny combos to power up, but it's just a small damage buff, and it opens up corner combos, but he has no way to keep anyone cornered. I mean, you saw the difference of how badly I started losing when I switched to him. I did good a few matches, but most were a struggle. I switched to Yu and then even had the liberty to toy around some matches. I don't think I'm bad at rushdown either, since Bullet was probably even better than my Bang...

One of the most epic matches for me was the finale. 'AUTO' Reach Out to the Truth playing and I finished with a perfect, ending with my Frenzy-Ka-Zan Super Trinity combo. /cocky I actually felt the matches were Junpei were the most exciting, too, and I like putting in the work. Though a bit depressing, too. Particularly because I almost made a complete turn-around that match with the Almighty, but fell short. I want to do as good as I do with Yu with Junpei... But at the same time I really enjoy a reserved gameplay style with Flit Asuno and Izanagundam.

Oh, 2.0 is right around the corner, dunno if you know about that. We may not see a release for a long time... Dunno how I feel though, it's a very recent console release and already we're playing an outdated version. But since apparently there's no new content at all it may actually be a patch. But... Arcsys, who knows. In any case Junpei got a handful of much needed buffs, that much I know. And Victory Cry and his best super got nerfed, what? Shadow characters are redesigned, they have a burst now, and can sacrifice it to use Shadow Frenzy at any time (not 100sp anymore) it seems. I think their damage got buffed by 10%. I hope they're still considered worse, I don't want Shadow Yu becoming a top tier clone. But about that, S. Yu Cross Slash damage is nerfed, so his SF stuff will hurt less... But there's not much of a consensus I can find about Yu's changes, he seems to have a lot of minor tweaks for better or for worse.

[Deleted]

WHAT they're doing that to Shadow characters? That will easily make them superior to their normal counterparts, and that will really affect the tiers of characters who don't have shadow forms! There are two main reasons why Shadow Characters are considered bad:
1) No burst
2) They need to restrict their meter usage until it hits 100 for Shadow Frenzy, which limits their options unless they want to sabotage the reason they chose the Shadow character in the first place.

A patch like that will fix the only two things that made shadow characters bad, and with a damage buff, they'll be perfect. They must have a nerf somewhere else, or maybe the regular characters will get buffed. I didn't know about this, so its research time.

Also, I have my fingers crossed for Theodore DLC.

[Indigo]

I think you underestimate normal characters. Awakening is a big deal, with an instant 50sp (and pushing the bar itself to 150), and taking 40% less damage which essentially adds about 1000 health to their default values (Elizabeth can actually become a tank if she hits Awakening, then heals her damage), plus they have to hit less overall to win. Burst is also a game-changing tool (you have to learn how to use them and conserve better, most of the time I can bait yours with an All out Attack, or you burst when I can't even confirm into a strong combo).

Not only that, One More Burst is a combo tool just like Shadow Frenzy, just to a smaller extent, and they can choose to hold 150sp for the match (i.e. normal Yu can actually do 2/3 of the Shadow Frenzy combo I do, and finish with a combo instead of a final third super). If a Shadow bursts now, they'll sacrifice their main damage for the whole round or more for it, because it will disable their Shadow Frenzy. And on top of that, they're forced to use it less often since the requirement is Burst, and not whenever they have 100 meter.

I'm curious how it will play out, because it can actually be worse for Shadows, or better. They have better options, but have to balance resources more than before, and will still need 100sp for their best combos. At the same time they can Shadow Frenzy whenever, which lets them use a rapid cancel or super no matter what sp they have, but again, that means their offense and defense will both be on coooldown afterwards. Shadows can build 100 meter faster than Burst recharges.

For what it's worth, don't forget Shadows can't use Instant Kills, either. While mostly pointless, they force caution because they can punish DPs and supers, or some other slow attacks to steal the match.

It's probably not as gamebreaking as you think... Well, I wouldn't get my hopes up for DLC, since the update is getting very close, and so far they've shown it to be purely a big rebalancing.