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Post by Indigo on Feb 6, 2012 21:04:21 GMT
How do you think the world was created Alberenza? Just curious. I mean, do you think it just 'is', or the big bang theory? ... I hate that theory.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 21:13:11 GMT
The universe? It always has been. Just like religion cannot explain how god was created, saying he created himself, I as an atheist cannot explain how the universe came to be. Dark matter is like, nothing, so the universe came from nothing and as sentient beings we exist due to the fact that the law of averages would eventually allow life to thrive somewhere or another. Since the universe is scientifically proved to be expanding, I'm all for the big bang theory. Or, the universe could have had a quiet beginning and simply have slowly expanded from a single point. Like a wine glass. Either way, why do you hate it so much? The big bang theory, I mean.
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Post by Indigo on Feb 6, 2012 21:26:34 GMT
Well, I just find it hard to believe because there's no solid evidence. I mean, as much sense as it can make, I find it hard to believe man could correctly assume that it was basically made by an explosion within space, especially when we have no idea what there was before the explosion. It makes sense, it just can't be proven. Just kinda seems like science just wanted to make an explanation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 21:29:50 GMT
Well, people do that. Explain things. Just role with it, thinking too hard (Like I have done) just gets you depressed because it's beyond our comprehension. Maybe one day when we've expanded across the universe we'll understand as a race, but now, we cant, and it's best we just get on with our lives.
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Post by Commander Brutus on Feb 7, 2012 11:34:26 GMT
How do you think the world was created Alberenza? I know it's not aimed at me. But if I had the choice between learning the truth behind the universe or not. I'd choose not to; it's too much knowledge for someone to have and (whatever it is) could destroy peoples lives. Say for example; it was the big bang and all sciencey things like that, wouldn't that destroy the lives of religious people? Well thats my view anyway. Plus I sleep easier not knowing... Oh, Im also atheist.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 16:00:06 GMT
How do you think the world was created Alberenza? I know it's not aimed at me. But if I had the choice between learning the truth behind the universe or not. I'd choose not to; it's too much knowledge for someone to have and (whatever it is) could destroy peoples lives. Say for example; it was the big bang and all sciencey things like that, wouldn't that destroy the lives of religious people? Well thats my view anyway. Plus I sleep easier not knowing... Oh, Im also atheist. Good point. I am however too curious- I would choose to find out. Depending on the answer I would or would not choose to share it.
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Post by Commander Brutus on Feb 7, 2012 16:45:56 GMT
Good point. I am however too curious- I would choose to find out. Depending on the answer I would or would not choose to share it. But once you know/learn something you can't "un-know"/"un-learn" it.
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Post by yuurei on Feb 12, 2012 5:52:18 GMT
According to my research (watching Are you smarter than a 5th grader) i can certainly say that it is rather easy to forget/unlearn something after learning it.
On religion: I don't really know much about Christianity/Catholic something or other (Spell check failed me again!) even though my step-dad, mother, and my step-dads parents/family are all Christian/Catholic, so i may be completely wrong about some stuff (In which case let me know so i can try and change my opinion.)
(NOTE. This is gonna be long and pretty ranty. I have issues with religions because i prefer to deal with facts, or things that actually seem be likely. If the rant offends you, please tell me by PM or something and i'll try and make it less offensive. If the rant bores you, just skip it already. If you have issues with my non-beliefs or beliefs (Which i just noticed has Lie in it. Weird.) feel free to state your opinion, but in a calmish manner.)
What i think i know is that Christians take the bible as an actual, factual record of true events, which (in my opinion) is ridiculous. But if it's instead either a bunch of... uhh... morality story type thingies (I forgot the word/phrase i'm looking for. Something like how the moral of Little red riding hood is don't talk to suspicious strangers) or a mix of factual events and that word/phrase i'm looking for, then whatever, listen to those stories and do whatever you feel you need to do (Which is what people should do anyways in this sort of situation) unless it's something stupid and/or violent.
But taking it literally here are my issues with it.
First off, Talking snake. Sure it's supposed to be Satan, but still, talking snake. Actually, that's second. First is Woman being created from Rib of Adam. Something about that seems sort of offensive to me.
Third, Noah's Ark. Whole world flood, and this dude somehow managed to get 2 of every animal, of opposite genders, as well as enough food to feed each pair of animals in something like a a year, which seems impossible for a multitude of reasons. (Though Wikipedia says that people don't take it literally anymore.) First off, he had to get them onto his boat, and then keep them there even though some of these things are predators and they could probably kill him without even trying too hard (Especially if he has to deal with two or more at once). Second, FOOD. Where is he gonna get all the food for these animals? Third, he only had something like a month to a year to get all of this done, which seems insane, as he had to build a big888 boat, a bunch of cages, collect 40 days worth of food for his family and all the animals (How is he supposed to know what animal can eat what anyways?), then store it all without having too much of it go bad (Which may have been possible in that period of time, i don't know anything about keeping food), and get the animals onto the boat without anything going wrong. Getting all of that done seems insanely unlikely.
(Man that was a long rant. I wonder who i've offended so far. I still may be wrong about stuff, as i have literally never read the bible or had it spoken to me or anything. All the info i have is stuff i've heard people talk about or reference.)
Fourth (Nope, not done.) Jesus. First, he's a bastard. A actual, literal, bastard. Mary h'aint married to God, she's married to Joseph. Jesus ain't Joe's kid, therefore, bastard (Which isn't anything worth noting as far as i'm concerned, seeing as i'm a literal bastard too.) which i believe is a bad, if not terrible thing to be according to what i know about Christianity. The second (And far worse), that sucker died, then came back to life three days later. Doesn't that make him a Zombie? You're telling me to idolize and worship a zombie? Nope, won't go for it. Now if it was like, 3 minutes later i wouldn't care. People "die" like that all the time. But 3 days is just out of the question.
I don't have any issue with Christianity as a collective project to help people become better people, but don't tell me that there's only 1 God, and he's completely perfect in every way, and that if i don't believe in him i'm going to hell. If God is perfect, then he ain't gonna care that i was wrong based on the evidence i have (Which is essentially word of mouth/rumors) as long as i can admit that i was wrong and they were right. If he can't or won't do that, then as far as i'm concerned, he ain't worth dealing with anyway.
Judaism. I know nothing about it beyond sterotypes, so i'm not gonna go into it. Don't believe in it though. (Though i think they had something about Jesus just being some ordinary guy, which i can totally get behind.)
Islam thingy (Dunno what it's called). Never read the Qa'ran or however you spell it, and i don't know anything about it either.
The Greek/Roman/Egyptian/Norse/Anything else Pantheon. Don't think it's true, but it'd be pretty freakin awesome if it was. Also, anyone who thinks Hades got the worst part of the deal (Command over Death, which gives him that whole Underground aspect as well as a invincible army, and all that other good stuff) is crazy. Zeus got everything in the air (Which ain't much to be honest.) Poseidon got everything in the sea (Which is way better than Zeus, but say hello to pollution). Hades is the clear winner (Though i'd love to debate about this. I'm oh so bored...)
Fatalism (Which sounds way worse than it actually is). I don't believe in it, but it doesn't matter because fatalism is about everything being preordained and that there really isn't any true choice in anything. By those standards, it's already been decided that i won't believe in it at this point anyways, so how could anything hold it against me? As long as i have some semblance of choice ("Hmmm, will i eat pizza or go put on some socks right now?") then i don't care.
Wicca. From what i've heard it's basically, Believe what you feel like, worship how you want, but don't hurt people because of it. Which is pretty awesome sounding, and is prolly what i'd be classified as.
Now for what i DO believe in.
I believe that somewhere, out in the universe, there are Aliens that have abilities that would seem pretty godlike, even if they weren't actual gods. Maybe they just have those abilities naturally like Superman. Maybe they just have really amazing Technology (Which would be awesome seeing as we could end up getting to that level of Tech as well). Maybe it's something else. The point is, it's not unlikely that those aliens don't exist, and so, maybe one of those aliens is just crazy overpowered. Maybe he's what we'd call God, maybe he's not. But what i know for sure is that he ain't some old white guy who looks sorta like santa, living in the sky.
So yeah, there prolly are Gods or Godlike beings. I believe that they exist, but not that we actively, knowingly worship them, or that we were created by them.
My belief thingy is most easily shown/explained through a example (Shown below).
My process is as follows. Find problem. Make stupid imaginary bargain/trade in my head. "Alright, if i don't have to go to school with this girl i like but have awkward history with, i'll let you (You being whatever is in charge of this whole thing Satan, God, Some random alien that can change probabilities, the Fates, whoever gets my message) make the week after that hell". Make sure to iron out loopholes. ("You only get to make next week suck if it goes as i intended, and not something like "She's not coming this week, but next week she transfers into class! or something") Wait to see if it works or not. If not, i assume the trade wasn't fair/equal enough or something and i'll try again. (You could say it's a prayer, but saying it's praying makes me feel like someone i'm entitled to something. I prefer calling a Trade, or a Bargain, or something similar.)
I actually went through this process recently, and lucky me, the girl i'm trying to avoid goes to school on the days i'm at my other school. I traded 7 days to be filled with annoyance/difficulty/general negative effects, taken from last monday, to a month from then, in return for not going to school with her in the next school year. I've been way sicker than i've been in 3 years since this Tuesday and my mom has started a new rule in the house that's completely imbalanced in favor of her. Far as i'm concerned that's totally fair and the trade is almost complete. 5 days down, 2 to go.
I'm not saying other beliefs are wrong, or evil, or insane (Well... Maybe certain aspects), or that some type of God doesn't exist (Something godlike almost certainly exists, but our religions prolly aren't thinking/talking/considering them properly). Just that i really doubt them or disagree with how they're presented and that i prefer to believe in my own way. (Which again, is how it should be. Believe what you want, but don't try and force it on me.)
Sorry for writing something so long and ranty. I have too many issues with Christianity as a religion for me to talk about religion in general without mentioning my problems with it. Sorry if i offended any of you, as it wasn't my intention. Feel free to disagree and state your opinions about why i'm wrong or to "Defend" yourself (Though i'm not attacking anyone specifically, just ideas. But people go crazy over ideas). I'll be sure to try and understand it better. If i've caused any problems let me know, and i'll try and fix them or have this post deleted or something.
-That guy with the invisible name.
PS. I'm pretty sure i've seen the future and ghosts.
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Post by Commander Brutus on Feb 12, 2012 12:09:30 GMT
According to my research (watching Are you smarter than a 5th grader) i can certainly say that it is rather easy to forget/unlearn something after learning it. PS. I'm pretty sure i've seen the future and ghosts. Firstly, if its so life changing like "YOU HAVE CANCER!" its kinda hard to forget that, same I guess if you learnt how it all began. Also, do you get that little almost picture like thing for half a second when you wake up sometimes; and then that exact "scene" happens a while later? Kinda like deja-vu but you saw it before hand.
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Post by yuurei on Feb 12, 2012 19:09:47 GMT
Good point Brute. But what about that thing where people who've been raped or something freak out and repress it or something? Not exactly the same level after all, but still...
And i get Deja Vu all the effing time. I remembered like, half of Wednesday this week when i went to the new school. I remembered some of people, general placement of people during the All school Meeting, during physics class, and american government class. It was a special dress up day that i had no prior knowledge of and everyone came in fancy dresses or suits. Wasn't surprised at all. On friday i was in a class and a girl was playing a video she made about how life gets better (Which sounds pretty depressing) and i actually remembered seeing it, even though i had no idea it even existed. And that's only in the past week. I swear to god, i've "seen" myself "seeing" myself have deja vu before. That's some Inception 8888 right there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 19:20:14 GMT
Good point Brute. But what about that thing where people who've been raped or something freak out and repress it or something? Not exactly the same level after all, but still... And i get Deja Vu all the effing time. I remembered like, half of Wednesday this week when i went to the new school. I remembered some of people, general placement of people during the All school Meeting, during physics class, and american government class. It was a special dress up day that i had no prior knowledge of and everyone came in fancy dresses or suits. Wasn't surprised at all. On friday i was in a class and a girl was playing a video she made about how life gets better (Which sounds pretty depressing) and i actually remembered seeing it, even though i had no idea it even existed. And that's only in the past week. I swear to god, i've "seen" myself "seeing" myself have deja vu before. That's some Inception 8888 right there. I imagine that stuff's in your head, Deja-vu is illogical. There are often simple explanations to things that seem supernatural, just try to keep a firm grip on reality and take a deep breath, think and possibly even try and enjoy those strange experiences and you'll be A-Ok.
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Post by Commander Brutus on Feb 12, 2012 20:00:26 GMT
Good point Brute. But what about that thing where people who've been raped or something freak out and repress it or something? Not exactly the same level after all, but still... And i get Deja Vu all the effing time. I remembered like, half of Wednesday this week when i went to the new school. I remembered some of people, general placement of people during the All school Meeting, during physics class, and american government class. It was a special dress up day that i had no prior knowledge of and everyone came in fancy dresses or suits. Wasn't surprised at all. On friday i was in a class and a girl was playing a video she made about how life gets better (Which sounds pretty depressing) and i actually remembered seeing it, even though i had no idea it even existed. And that's only in the past week. I swear to god, i've "seen" myself "seeing" myself have deja vu before. That's some Inception 8888 right there. I imagine that stuff's in your head, Deja-vu is illogical. There are often simple explanations to things that seem supernatural, just try to keep a firm grip on reality and take a deep breath, think and possibly even try and enjoy those strange experiences and you'll be A-Ok. It just mostly stuns me for a second, and depending on company I won't say anything. I got called crazy by a friend back when I was on my engineering course 2 years ago.
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Post by Stove on Feb 12, 2012 20:17:57 GMT
It is certain, and evident to our sense, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is moved is moved by another, for nothing can be moved except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is moved; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be moved from a state of potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality... it is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is moved must be moved by another. If that by which it is moved must itself be moved, then this also needs to be moved by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and consequently, no other mover, seeing as subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are moved by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is moved by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at the first mover, moved by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
Nothing moves itself. Think about it, if you swipe your arm near a feather, it will cause the air to move around it, running into the feather, causing it to fly upward, and it moves and uses the air as it descends, and when it lands, it causes the carpet to move. Also, your muscles and bones must move to cause your arm to swipe, and this command comes from your brain to activate through your nerves, which was created by your parents which moves up to the first parents, created by GOD. The big bang theory? I support it! It supports my beliefs. However, one planet didnt say to another; hey, let's expand! There had to be a first cause, nothing is created or moved by itself. That first thing is GOD.
As for Jesus being a zombie? 1) ZOMBIES ARE A LOAD OF BULLs***. WHOEVER TOLD YOU THEY EXIST IS CRAZIER THAN JONNY DEPP. 2) Jesus is DIVINE. If you were divine, don't you think you'd be able to bring yourself back from the dead? Yeah. God created us in his image. The way I see it, his kid is human. Looks like "in his image" to me.
Lastly, are you really trying to prove wrong the largest religion in the world? Can you explain how an image on a crappy cloak has survived for over 1,000 years without treatment? Can you explain how some saints bodies never corrode? Or how some always smell like roses? I don't care how much enbalming fluid you use on a body, it will eventually corrode.
I have an answer. [glow=red,2,300][shadow=red,left,300]GOD.[/shadow][/glow]
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Post by Commander Brutus on Feb 12, 2012 20:25:07 GMT
1) ZOMBIES ARE A LOAD OF BULLs***. WHOEVER TOLD YOU THEY EXIST IS CRAZIER THAN JONNY DEPP. Wait... wait... If your died very recently and were "brought back to life" by a defibrillator, does that metaphorically make you a zombie?
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Post by Stove on Feb 12, 2012 20:26:04 GMT
1) ZOMBIES ARE A LOAD OF BULLs***. WHOEVER TOLD YOU THEY EXIST IS CRAZIER THAN JONNY DEPP. Wait... wait... If your died very recently and were "brought back to life" by a defibrillator, does that metaphorically make you a zombie? No. Also, we've got a word for people who take every word in the bible literally, yuurei. I forgot what it is, but most cristians/catholics don't really see the Bible like that.
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Post by Commander Brutus on Feb 12, 2012 20:33:15 GMT
Aww... Thanks for crushing my dreams... Also, we've got a word for people who take every word in the bible literally, yuurei. I forgot what it is, but most cristians/catholics don't really see the Bible like that. If anything, its more guidelines for your life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 20:40:10 GMT
Steve's post makes a lot of sense in the sense that there must be an action for a reaction or 'movement' however I just dont agree with the existence of a being which requires no 'action' and is the action that creates all 'reaction' or 'movement' surely everything just happened without an action, as in being in a static state, then actions from living beings started the chain of reactions or 'movement'. I'm speaking in Steve's terms here- I just dont agree with god because he was logical up to the point where he just use god as an explanation for the unexplainable. God exists because people think to deeply and come up with a half assed reason why they exist in the first place. We're not at all special, there was no divine intervention to send us all on the track we move, and I'm all to willing to say yes- to an extent, people DONT require an action to have their own reaction, Steve's logic only applies to the basic laws of physics- people? They dont need an 'action' to create a reaction- thats living the life of a sheep who follows orders blindly from their king, the action. People need- and are perfectly capable of reacting on their own- see to all laws and logic there are exceptions. Of course, thats just my view. I just wish people would follow the '10 commandments' because it's what they believe to be right, rather than because they're scared of god's divine judgement. (Except using gods name in vain, that makes no sense)
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Post by Stove on Feb 12, 2012 20:47:38 GMT
^So you're saying everything existed from the start. There had to be something to start everything, whether you think it's God or not. And the using God's name in vain makes perfect sense. You want someone using your name in vain? Also, it is in the bible; God gave us free will. He wants us to be with him, however, he gives us a choice. Like the saying; "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours."
Also, you ignored the last part in that long post. Exactly.
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Feb 12, 2012 21:04:14 GMT
bashing religion in the religion thread...
i am very very dissapoint in you guys(except trooper)
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Post by Commander Brutus on Feb 12, 2012 21:07:06 GMT
bashing religion in the religion thread... i am very very dissapoint in you guys(except trooper) Hey, hey, hey. Im not bashing anyones religion.
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