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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 7, 2011 6:28:19 GMT
got veigar
but DANG i cant get a feel for how he plays
i understand how to use his abilities but i can put in the execution
even with viroths help i cant get it...
i guess i hafta stay with tryemadere
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Post by Dogmantra on Jun 7, 2011 17:02:56 GMT
^Wow you are a bitter one. You don't seem to be playing the same character I am. I wonder what is up... What level are ya and how many games played? Thing is, Ashe is AMAZING at really low levels and SUPER BROKENLY OP at high levels (she is basically always one of the first picks or bans in tournaments) but at medium sort of levels, she can be kinda underwhelming. |
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 7, 2011 17:25:53 GMT
^Wow you are a bitter one. You don't seem to be playing the same character I am. I wonder what is up... What level are ya and how many games played? Thing is, Ashe is AMAZING at really low levels and SUPER BROKENLY OP at high levels (she is basically always one of the first picks or bans in tournaments) but at medium sort of levels, she can be kinda underwhelming. I am about level 16 and I have played a few hundred games. I don't have a rune page for her yet so that might be a thing. I intend to build an armor pen crit chance page for another champ and use it for her too. |
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 7, 2011 18:37:46 GMT
Nocturne is a beast
and yes i take full advantage of hit abilities and not spam his R
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Post by Viroth on Jun 8, 2011 2:18:45 GMT
So apparently, people hate Zilean.
Alot.
That is, if they're against him. Nothing is more deliciously evil than tricking people into tower diving, only to ult yourself / a team mate and make the tower dive turn into a suicide run.
So now, I'm starting to think, what exactly do YOU guys find annoying in any champion? This isn't "Your most hated champion." just what kind of either strategy or general traits you find annoying or hate in a champion. Examples of these would be: Lane Dominant, Long Ranged, Indestructo-Tanks, etc.
Mine would probably be lane dominant champions, but just the kinds of champions that take your harass early game and like it. I'm talking Cho'Gath, Mordekaiser, Nunu... the kinds of guys that you waste all your spells on and you haven't even hurt them.
Because I like playing Cassiopeia, Karthus, and other champions that are more or less MADE to try and force others out of the lane, it's kind of disappointing to use up all your mana on harass while balancing last hitting minions only to find that Morde's passive absorbed it all, Nunu consumed and got all his HP back, etc.
I'm fine with champions that try and force you out of the lane (Caitlyn, Ashe, Lux, Urgot) because they usually aren't meant to take harass back at them and I can usually out-harass them. But when it's a healer paired up with a support (Alistar+Soraka... >_>), lane phase just turns so boring.
So, now I ask, which traits / strategies do YOU guys hate?
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 8, 2011 2:52:57 GMT
taric + ashe >.<
being told to solo lane against a full size cho'gath and nobody helps
any time ive been 1v3 gank on TT and then people on my team say STOP DIEING or YOUR FEEDING!1!!!
though i bet a team with Karthus and Soraka on it would be interesting to fight lol
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Post by Dogmantra on Jun 8, 2011 2:59:52 GMT
Sustain combined with Lane Dominance is generally what makes an annoying character. Especially if they're a "hit 6 > become ungankable" (e.g. Teemo) or a "hit 2 > become ungankable" (e.g. Vlad) champion. Then again, I love laning and I'm pretty dang good at it, so I find I can establish lane dominance over a lot of the more sustainable people, stop 'em winning too hard.
Though there are a couple of exceptions, because Kassadin doesn't have good harrass, he isn't particularly sustainable, but he's the only champion I hate laning against as Ez because he's such a hard counter, but they're matchup specific)
I also hate the super carry strategy which thankfully is out of fashion at the moment. It's the strategy where your entire game plan revolves around getting one guy really fed and then having craptons of tanks and support. Apart from being no fun to play against, it's no fun to play and also legitimises the idea of killstealing.
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 8, 2011 3:06:11 GMT
i just hate fighting cho'gath in general late game >.<
it must be great being on the other side of him going
TROLOLOL TROLOLOL
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 8, 2011 18:23:41 GMT
i just hate fighting cho'gath in general late game >.< it must be great being on the other side of him going TROLOLOL TROLOLOL It has been my experience that most new players struggle when fighting Cho. Don't worry, you will learn how to fight him soon enough. |
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Post by Dogmantra on Jun 8, 2011 18:25:32 GMT
He's a dumb laner. Just teamfight and he'll probably be a bit useless. He's super hard to play as a full tank and not as effective as a bunch of other champs, and if you play him as Tanky AP it's often hard to deal damage and not just die instantly because of his short range.
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 8, 2011 19:54:34 GMT
^Wait... you have seen Cho's die?
You have seen some shitty Cho's.
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Post by Viroth on Jun 8, 2011 19:58:54 GMT
Screw Mordekaiser, Cassiopeia, Cho'Gath, Malzahar, and Veigar.
... Yorick looks like he'll be... amazing...
MUST... HAVE HIM!
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Post by Dogmantra on Jun 8, 2011 20:53:48 GMT
^Wait... you have seen Cho's die? You have seen some shitty Cho's. Cho'Gath ain't a tank, bro. Though it's much rarer to see a useless Cho'Gath die I agree. also  so good at drawing |
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 9, 2011 4:55:33 GMT
Sion....Nasus.....Poppy.... GAH SO MANY CHOICES!!!!
btw way after trying heimerdinger im kinda dissapointed
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 9, 2011 5:31:54 GMT
Sion....Nasus.....Poppy.... GAH SO MANY CHOICES!!!! btw way after trying heimerdinger im kinda dissapointed How so? |
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 9, 2011 6:56:56 GMT
ehh he wasnt what i thought
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 9, 2011 16:04:03 GMT
ehh he wasnt what i thought ... how so? |
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Post by Viroth on Jun 11, 2011 19:07:40 GMT
Cho'Gath isn't exactly a tank, as Dogmantra has stated, but he is usually able to get tanky enough to survive initial damage bursts in a team fight and not be entirely useless. I'm not too sure where you see this "Tanky AP Cho" that dies easily though, Dogmantra.
Obviously, Tank Cho'gath is not viable. If your team is lacking in the tank department, he can build a bit more tankier than other damage characters and not be completely ignorable or useless.
Mordekaiser is an example of a tanky AP dps that is easily ignorable when built tanky due to his lack of any good CC, his low damage late game without any healthy amounts of AP, and his utmost reliability on hitting many people for his shield. However, Cho'Gath still has his knock up and his silence, which can make or break a team fight regardless of whether or not it does that much damage. Building him tankier than usual makes it so that he can run into a team, silence them all for 3 seconds, knock someone up, and not get instantly killed.
Not to mention Feast does a hefty 300 - 650 True Damage, which is on a .7 AP Ratio, meaning that he still does not so ignorable damage with just a bit of AP.
In comparison to Mordekaiser (someone who most newer players mistakenly build a tank due to his look), Cho'Gath is alot more useful if he's mostly tanky with a bit of AP on the side.
The only thing Tank Mordekaiser has going for him is his ult, which requires him to depend on his team mates to focus the enemy carry (Which should be able to either out range, kite, or flat out ignore Mordekaiser's puny ult damage if he doesn't have much ap), and if Tank Morde gets the carry, that more or less guarantees either you lose the team fight, or you lose a tower or two.
However, Cho'Gath can build less AP and still get more damage than Mordekaiser because Cho'Gath has higher AP ratios, whilst Mordekaiser's only 1.0 or higher ratio ability is his Mace of Spades, which scales off of AD. Also building Mordekaiser as AD means he's a 1-trick pony, having a Q that hurts like all hell, and then being entirely useless.
In essence: Tanky AP Cho'Gath is a lot less ignorable than other "useless" tanks Mordekaiser, both of which most people mistakenly build as tanks and end up being useless. The difference between most of them is Cho'Gath has good amounts of CC, whilst others do not.
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Post by Dogmantra on Jun 11, 2011 19:51:48 GMT
Cho'Gath isn't exactly a tank, as Dogmantra has stated, but he is usually able to get tanky enough to survive initial damage bursts in a team fight and not be entirely useless. I'm not too sure where you see this "Tanky AP Cho" that dies easily though, Dogmantra. On Summoner's Rift. Basically, unless you build straight tank or extremely tanky (i.e. Warmog's + Atma's + tank) you CANNOT go into five competent opponents and expect to live. Tanky AP Cho'Gath dies easily (against farmed opponents) because of his short range. Absurdly tanky Cho'Gath doesn't do any damage and his CC is unreliable. |
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Post by Viroth on Jun 12, 2011 0:17:01 GMT
Basically, unless you build straight tank or extremely tanky (i.e. Warmog's + Atma's + tank) you CANNOT go into five competent opponents and expect to live. Tanky AP Cho'Gath dies easily (against farmed opponents) because of his short range. Absurdly tanky Cho'Gath doesn't do any damage and his CC is unreliable.
Perhaps I didn't mean "able to take on an initial burst", but they're still tanky enough to be able to sneak into a team fight after a tank has initiated and not completely melt like others. Besides, having the entire enemy focusing on or two tanky opponents means your carries are able to get their shots off without dying near instantly.
They don't initiate because they're not only a tad bit slow, and can't really take 5 people at a time, but have no reliable gap closers. I'm agreeing with what Dillybar said: Cho's aren't supposed to die. More or less, people are playing them like tanks and running in to initiate fights like they own the place. All that pure tank Cho can do is silence and hope to knock up someone, but other than getting in the way of skill shots and being so big that it's hard to hit things around him, tank is not the way.
I have seen my fair share of fail cho's that either build full tank and expect to be focused even though they're ignorable or those that build full AP and get killed because they're giant targets.
They're no Shen or Rammus, but they're still tanky enough to take a bit of the crossfire from team fights for their squishies and not get insta-gibbed, which is their purpose. |
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