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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 3, 2011 5:06:05 GMT
so everybody else disconected?
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Post by Viroth on Jun 3, 2011 5:10:35 GMT
Server problems.
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 4, 2011 4:21:45 GMT
so i had a very painful experience today
i was master Yi
i took a back way to try and gank an ashe i go around a corner only to find
Cho'bath(full size)
warick
and annie
lets just say i was raped really really really really badly i died in like 3 seconds of seeing them
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 4, 2011 4:32:03 GMT
so i had a very painful experience today i was master Yi i took a back way to try and gank an ashe i go around a corner only to find Cho'bath(full size) warick and annie lets just say i was raped really really really really badly i died in like 3 seconds of seeing them |
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Post by M.C.MastaAustin on Jun 4, 2011 4:47:59 GMT
yo bros I fixed my computer and can start playing agian
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 5, 2011 23:56:49 GMT
Doggy i dont get why you hate shen so much
he's SO EASY to me(when using master yi)
if he taunts me i just use my ult to catch up to him and watch his HP drop
his shield breaks in one alpha strike
he doesnt hit hard
and if he teleports away hes no longer my problem
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 6, 2011 2:15:13 GMT
Doggy i dont get why you hate shen so much he's SO EASY to me(when using master yi) if he taunts me i just use my ult to catch up to him and watch his HP drop his shield breaks in one alpha strike he doesnt hit hard and if he teleports away hes no longer my problem Then all shens you have fought against suck. Shen is one of the more broken characters in LoL right now because he is one of the only true tanks left. All of the others have been converted into bruisers or some s*** like that. For example Cho'Gath. They really messed with him. Anyway, true tanks are scary because they only need a few items and then are virtually unkillable. A smart Shen will never die... ever. Especially to Master Yi. Even with full armor pen builds I have never been able to take down a good Shen with Yi. Have you ever been taunted next to a tower? Sucks hard. |
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 6, 2011 4:46:05 GMT
being taunted plus turrets is equal to fighting a full size Cho'gath by your self, it just doesnt work in the end
is tryndamere any good? he looks pretty cool
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 6, 2011 17:30:32 GMT
being taunted plus turrets is equal to fighting a full size Cho'gath by your self, it just doesnt work in the end is tryndamere any good? he looks pretty cool Spindamere? He snowballs pretty well. He also has some pretty beastly survival abilities. |
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 6, 2011 18:02:53 GMT
snowballs? what doeth that meen
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 6, 2011 18:08:06 GMT
^That is a common metaphor use to denote that something starts out small but if it gets going (in LoL if they snag kills and build the right items) they will be unstoppable and destroy everything.
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 6, 2011 18:36:55 GMT
welp i bought him getting 5 times as many kills then master yi with him
i like him alot
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Post by Dogmantra on Jun 6, 2011 19:08:44 GMT
Doggy i dont get why you hate shen so much he's SO EASY to me(when using master yi) if he taunts me i just use my ult to catch up to him and watch his HP drop his shield breaks in one alpha strike he doesnt hit hard and if he teleports away hes no longer my problem Shen is broken. Ashe is broken. Those are literally the only two characters that are brokenly powerful. There are a few that are broken in other ways (like Tryndamere and Katarina). Shen is one of the only four proper tanks, and notably, he's the only one capable of shutting down any lane he's in. Amumu HAS to jungle to be worth anything, Rammus is okay but not strong in lane, and he's a good jungler, Galio NEEDS a solo lane to not be useless, but Shen can lane anywhere and be dominant. Two Hearts of Gold, a Sunfire Cape and a Force of Nature means he literally never dies and due to his bullshit passive he also does absurd burst. He's so easy to farm with, and due to his lane dominance, pair him with another strong laner and he ends up earning craptons of gold. He can split push and there's nothing you can do. Try to catch him alone and suddenly your team is being slaughtered 5v4, engage him with your entire team and suddenly you've lost a tower in a different lane. And he just teleported away to join his team. They've probably had a free Baron. I don't hate Shen, I think his skillset is fundamentally flawed to the level that he breaks game balance. I quite like his playstyle actually, I've been told I'm quite funny to watch when I'm playing Shen, just runnin' around chasin' someone or bein' chased. He's my go-to champion for singlehandedly carrying teams to victory. Also those Shens you were playing sucked very hard if they were being killed quickly by Master Yi. And Tryndamere... he's broken too, in a bad way. He's useless until he can farm up a full build, in which case he demonstrates why melee carry is a dumb idea in LoL. He's the only melee carry that works and it's because he has a freaking five second long absolute defense for an ultimate. |
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Post by Badog Vi Britania on Jun 6, 2011 22:24:38 GMT
just tried nunu(accidently)
dont like him >.<
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 6, 2011 23:42:31 GMT
Really? Why do you feel this way? |
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Post by Dogmantra on Jun 7, 2011 0:50:24 GMT
Really? Why do you feel this way? She's the best carry in the same way Shen is the best tank. The emphasis is on best, not carry. Corki carries harder, just as Amumu tanks harder, however, her skillset is basically a support skillset that scales with AD. Focus (Passive) - Free 3% crit chance on your next attack for every 3 seconds you don't attack. This basically ensures that you open every engagement with 2.5 autoattacks (Infinity Edge is a core item on Ashe for obvious reasons) Frost Shot - A slow that reapplies on every autoattack. Percentage scales with rank. This allows her to kite any melee without an absolute closer (e.g. Udyr) forever because its mana cost is tiny. Volley - A cone of damage that also slows according to the rank of Frost Shot you have. Scales with AD. This is a ridiculously long range poke, and the slow is just the icing on the cake. Scales well but the base damage is good enough that she can get quite lane dominant with it. Hawkshot - a free Clairvoyance, AND a free two and a half Twisted Fates. This is just dumb. "YEAH SURE LET'S GIVE A CHAMPION ONE OF THE BEST SUMMONER SPELLS IN THE GAME AS AN ABILITY ON A SIMILAR COOLDOWN THEN ALSO GIVE THEM FREE GOLD FOR TAKING IT". I'd be fine if it was on a support character, it's a great support ability, it just doesn't belong on a carry, who incidentally, benefit the most from free gold. Enchanted Crystal Arrow - broken. BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN. Not only does it let her kite even HARDER, it's also a great damaging GLOBAL skillshot that stuns for THREE POINT FIVE SECONDS at max duration. It's among the best initiation in the game, and while that's dandy, remember that initiation is almost solely reserved for tanks, tanky DPS and support, i.e. people that don't do ridiculous damage. Blitzcrank's, Amumu's and Malphite's initiation abilities are all better in most circumstances, but Ashe's is the best in some, and better than nearly all the others all the time. Comparing it to Corki, who has a higher damage output and slightly safer laning with Valkyrie, it looks like she's Just Worse, but then you consider her role on a team and you realise that what she lacks in pure DPS, she makes up for in absurd utility. Having Ashe is almost like having two characters on your team, a ranged carry and a support. |
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Post by Viroth on Jun 7, 2011 1:17:58 GMT
I have to disagree with you a bit on Ashe, Dogmantra.
Frost shot would be broken if fast, gap-closing melees weren't so popular today. I don't know about you, but practically every game I play these days has one or two of those, and other characters can escape / outrange you quite easily in comparison to Ashe.
Volley... yea, it's a long range poke... that's both on a bit of a long CD, is easily predictable, and easy to dodge. This makes her a bit like Caitlyn in the lane phase. Obviously, if you let her poke you, she'll tear you up, and she isn't really all that "lane dominant" if you play someone who out-pokes her. (*Cough* Urgot, Cassiopeia, Karthus, Vayne, *insert all other lane-dominant characters)
But I will admit, her ult is damn annoying, and it's true that it is quite powerful, but you said it yourself. Ashe trades damage for utility, but that's a trade not to be taken lightly for someone who's occupying the "carry" position. You said it yourself, Corki out damages her, and so do most other ranged carries.
So, I think in essence that she may be broken in the right circumstances, but for the most part, she's not all that "overpowered".
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 7, 2011 2:02:19 GMT
As someone who plays Ashe as one of their mains I have to say that you have clearly had some bad Ashe games and are over exaggerating. Focus (Passive) - Free 3% crit chance on your next attack for every 3 seconds you don't attack. This basically ensures that you open every engagement with 2.5 autoattacks (Infinity Edge is a core item on Ashe for obvious reasons) Her passive is nice. Is it rage worthy? No. 1 free crit at the beginning of an engagement is not super good. There are much better passives out there, like Poppy's. Frost Shot - A slow that reapplies on every autoattack. Percentage scales with rank. This allows her to kite any melee without an absolute closer (e.g. Udyr) forever because its mana cost is tiny. It's mana cost may be small, but trust me, that mana cost per hit really adds up. This ability + volley + her ult costing a ton of mana will ensure that you will be running low most of the time. It is as much of a blessing as it is a curse. Volley - A cone of damage that also slows according to the rank of Frost Shot you have. Scales with AD. This is a ridiculously long range poke, and the slow is just the icing on the cake. Scales well but the base damage is good enough that she can get quite lane dominant with it. Her low damage stops this from being anything but minion control and a nice slow. Unless you build a damage Ashe this attack is not as broken as you make it out to be. And if you do make a damage based Ashe people are going to focus you and curb stomp you to ensure that you don't fill those Blood Thirsters up. Hawkshot - a free Clairvoyance, AND a free two and a half Twisted Fates. This is just dumb. "YEAH SURE LET'S GIVE A CHAMPION ONE OF THE BEST SUMMONER SPELLS IN THE GAME AS AN ABILITY ON A SIMILAR COOLDOWN THEN ALSO GIVE THEM FREE GOLD FOR TAKING IT". I'd be fine if it was on a support character, it's a great support ability, it just doesn't belong on a carry, who incidentally, benefit the most from free gold. You are exaggerating quite a bit. Clairvoyance is not the best summoner spell. It is good? Yes, but it is not the best. There are too many other, better spells vying for that spot. Ghost, Flash, and Exaust. Also, her clairvoyance is very brief. Also, she needs the gold. She cannot farm for the first 15 minutes or so. She desperately needs gold. If it did not give her gold, Ashe would be garbage because she would be left behind so fast her eyes would spin. Enchanted Crystal Arrow - broken. BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN. Not only does it let her kite even HARDER, it's also a great damaging GLOBAL skillshot that stuns for THREE POINT FIVE SECONDS at max duration. It's among the best initiation in the game, and while that's dandy, remember that initiation is almost solely reserved for tanks, tanky DPS and support, i.e. people that don't do ridiculous damage. Blitzcrank's, Amumu's and Malphite's initiation abilities are all better in most circumstances, but Ashe's is the best in some, and better than nearly all the others all the time. Her ult is nice, yes. It does improve her kiting, yes. It is global, good luck hitting people on the other side of the map with something that moves so slowly, but it is global. But it also takes tons of mana. It costs 150 mana out of her max 650. Like I said before, she is always hurting for mana. And it has a 75 second cool down. It has downsides. Comparing it to Corki, who has a higher damage output and slightly safer laning with Valkyrie, it looks like she's Just Worse, but then you consider her role on a team and you realise that what she lacks in pure DPS, she makes up for in absurd utility. Having Ashe is almost like having two characters on your team, a ranged carry and a support. Yes, one of the big things about Ashe is that she is able to effectively be built a variety of different ways. No matter what the other team looks like. I actually have 4 Ashe builds that I alternate between depending on what my team needs, what we are fighting, and who I am laning against. So it is very hard to fight her if the Ashe knows what she is doing. And unlike Shen she does have weaknesses. Poor farming abilities for the first 15 minutes of a game, one of the slowest champs (movement speed wise, although her super low attack speed doesn't help either. After all, it is one of the big reasons she cannot farm for most of a game), and poor damage really hurt her. Ashe is good, I will agree with you there. But she is in no way broken. She cannot hold a candle to the craptasticly broken Shen and should not be compared or put in the same category. |
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Post by Dogmantra on Jun 7, 2011 2:18:51 GMT
As someone who plays Ashe as one of their mains I have to say that you have clearly had some bad Ashe games and are over exaggerating. Not really. She is actually as broken as I'm saying. Put it this way: I am a terrible Ashe and having played her a couple of times, I could carry almost as hard as I can with Ezreal. I have about 300 games played as Ezreal. Maybe 400. Her passive is nice. Is it rage worthy? No. 1 free crit at the beginning of an engagement is not super good. There are much better passives out there, like Poppy's. While it's true that most other ranged carries have a better passive (Ezreal and Corki come to mind), it's the burst from it which auto-wins many engagements. You can instantly force your lane opponent to be much more passive at level 1 with a 100 damage shot, and you can take half of a squishy's health with it at the start of teamfights at level 18. It's mana cost may be small, but trust me, that mana cost per hit really adds up. This ability + volley + her ult costing a ton of mana will ensure that you will be running low most of the time. It is as much of a blessing as it is a curse. I don't intend to offend you by saying this, but if you have mana problems on Ashe, you're doing it wrong. I normally play her with my standard physical page, which does have some Mp5 on it (and I pick up a single rank in Meditation), however, I've played her with neither of those things and it is not hard to manage your mana at all. Continuing comparisons to other AD carries, Ezreal has so many more mana problems, Corki does too, so does Miss Fortune. In fact, Ashe is one of the least mana dependent characters in the game. Her low damage stops this from being anything but minion control and a nice slow. Low damage? :O Unless you build a damage Ashe this attack is not as broken as you make it out to be. What other kind of Ashe is there? IE, Phantom Dancer, Bloodthirster, maybe a Black Cleaver or a BVeil. And if you do make a damage based Ashe people are going to focus you and curb stomp you to ensure that you don't fill those Blood Thirsters up. If you have bad positioning and don't use your CC well, sure. Bloodthirster is still a good item even with no stacks. You are exaggerating quite a bit. Clairvoyance is not the best summoner spell. It is good? Yes, but it is not the best. There are too many other, better spells vying for that spot. Ghost, Flash, and Exaust. Flash is better (because Flash is broken, it's awesome, but broken) and Ghost is better but that's it. Map Awareness, especially free, very short cooldown Map Awareness is so important. Ever see a team grab an Oracle's at about 10 minutes for wards? If one team does and the other doesn't, they tend to win. Also, she needs the gold. She cannot farm for the first 15 minutes or so. She desperately needs gold. If it did not give her gold, Ashe would be garbage because she would be left behind so fast her eyes would spin. Again, comparing to other AD carries, none of them have anything similar, yet most of them scale just as well. Her ult is nice, yes. It does improve her kiting, yes. It is global, good luck hitting people on the other side of the map with something that moves so slowly, but it is global. But it also takes tons of mana. It costs 150 mana out of her max 650. Like I said before, she is always hurting for mana. And it has a 75 second cool down. It has downsides. Mana is not a balancing mechanic outside of the laning phase. If you do not have enough mana outside laning, you need Blue Buff or some mana items, or you need to get a different runepage or mastery setup. At 75 seconds, Ashe's ultimate is pretty much the shortest cooldown of any of the similar super-initiation ults (Amumu, Galio, Malphite). Besides, why are you trying to hit across the map if you don't need to. Simply duck out of the opposing team's initiation range, shoot your arrow, then your entire team goes in, following up with CC on the relevant people. Yes, one of the big things about Ashe is that she is able to effectively be built a variety of different ways. No matter what the other team looks like. I actually have 4 Ashe builds that I alternate between depending on what my team needs, what we are fighting, and who I am laning against. So it is very hard to fight her if the Ashe knows what she is doing. I agree with the last sentence, but not because of different builds, because of how good she is at kiting. And unlike Shen she does have weaknesses. Poor farming abilities for the first 15 minutes of a game, one of the slowest champs (movement speed wise, although her super low attack speed doesn't help either. After all, it is one of the big reasons she cannot farm for most of a game), and poor damage really hurt her. What. I'm sorry, this is just false. Ashe has a FANTASTIC last hit animation, if she's not hit at least 80 last hits without good reason by 15 minutes she's seriously falling behind, her movespeed is, if I recall correctly 300 points, which is pretty much usual for a ranged AD carry. Ezreal has 305, I think Tristana also does. Some used to have 310 and they got nerfed. Besides, if you want to remedy her low ASPD and Movespeed get a Phantom Dancer, which happens to be pretty much the best second item possible on her. Ashe is good, I will agree with you there. But she is in no way broken. She cannot hold a candle to the craptasticly broken Shen and should not be compared or put in the same category. Ashe is arguably more broken than Shen. She's certainly a better champion, especially after the nerfs to Shen, and this ain't just me talking my own shizzle here, multiple tournament level players rank her as a top pick (that's not to say they always pick her, if they have initiation sorted, they'll often grab a Caitlyn or a Corki instead, but she's a very common ban, and an equally common pick) So I suppose you're right, I have had a few bad Ashe games. One bad Ashe game in particular. It's called "League of Legends". |
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Post by dillybar64 on Jun 7, 2011 5:19:57 GMT
^Wow you are a bitter one.
You don't seem to be playing the same character I am.
I wonder what is up...
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