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Post by Indigo on Sept 18, 2014 8:22:03 GMT
In 1v1 his specials are great. Crash bomber goes full screen, and once it hits, the big thing is that it forces a reaction. Assuming they're a good player that knows the timing of the explosion, they still have to stop a second for any block or dodge, which can be punished. Or they may try to rush you and you can space them out with his As and F-air. If the explosion hits, you can get a good hit on them during the hitstun.
Metal blade is kinda the same use upon first shooting it, slowish full-screen projectile. He can alternate between both pretty fast though. It's more for securing an area... It can shoot up and down. Shoot it upwards then up-b under it, or if you're thrown upwards, shoot it down and your way down is safe. Reverse throw version of it has an awesome animation.
It's... An amazing item. Drop one down in front of you or down over an enemy, and pick it up, you can throw it any direction instantly. Pretty much why I love playing him, he's essentially Mega Man X with ninja armor. Jumping over enemies and tossing it down repeatedly... It only disappears if it's blocked (pierces on hit). It can confirm into F/B-air. Forward tossed ninja star combos into his A or d-tilt. Can wallstick on an edge for more shenanigans. Ninjaman's so fun.
I also found out he can still grab during his leaf shield... Which gives him a niche in running into enemies to combo the shield hits into (near unpunishable) grabs, so it's a good idea to just run into enemies with it after all.
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Post by Stove on Sept 18, 2014 20:36:32 GMT
I got SO trolled.
So...turns out one of my friends had codes the entire time. We never brought up the smash bros demo this week, so I didn't know, but I brought it up today and he said he had codes and I just about went nuts.
...but hey, infinite use smash demo until October 3 so woo.
...sorry, that wasn't enthusiastic enough.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 20:46:15 GMT
It wouldn't have mattered in a couple of hours. Oh well, at least you can enjoy the demo now.
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Post by Stove on Sept 18, 2014 20:49:37 GMT
It wouldn't have mattered in a couple of hours. Oh well, at least you can enjoy the demo now. Actually, it comes out 11AM tomorrow here...besides, my midnight is not your midnight so it would've been 8 more hours anyway, but nintendo made an official post saying it came at 11AM CST (my time) tomorrow, so it does. A bit. But that's why I was saying I got trolled, Al. ._. I thought that was obvious. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 21:01:01 GMT
It wouldn't have mattered in a couple of hours. Oh well, at least you can enjoy the demo now. Actually, it comes out 11AM tomorrow here...besides, my midnight is not your midnight so it would've been 8 more hours anyway, but nintendo made an official post saying it came at 11AM CST (my time) tomorrow, so it does. A bit. But that's why I was saying I got trolled, Al. ._. I thought that was obvious. It was obvious and I know my time zones, I just wrote that for the sake of responding.  Didn't know Nintendo was leaving it so late in the day to release the demo, though. They usually release things at midnight over here. |
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Post by Stove on Sept 18, 2014 21:23:10 GMT
Actually, it comes out 11AM tomorrow here...besides, my midnight is not your midnight so it would've been 8 more hours anyway, but nintendo made an official post saying it came at 11AM CST (my time) tomorrow, so it does. A bit. But that's why I was saying I got trolled, Al. ._. I thought that was obvious. It was obvious and I know my time zones, I just wrote that for the sake of responding. Didn't know Nintendo was leaving it so late in the day to release the demo, though. They usually release things at midnight over here. I wish they had here too; I could play with some of my friends tomorrow if they did, but it's just me and the one guy who have the demo now. So...first thoughts looking at these characters. Mario: Not really different, but overall his moves got small buffs here and there. Still fun to use and the character out of the five I'm most experienced with. Pikachu: Ew. Pikachu isn't bad like I thought he was, but...ew. I really don't like Pikachu at all, especially when the computer gets their cheating hands on him. Link: Whoa. Link is WAY stronger than I thought he was. That Dash Attack KO'd Pikachu at, like, 60%. His aerials are all really good now, his dash attack is really good, his recovery is good...everything else he had was fine. Oh, and bombs not blowing up in my face is nice too. I actually am finding myself playing Link as much as Mega Man and Villager. Also, his grab is insanely good now that it doesn't have that garbage ending lag if it misses. Mega Man: Loads of fun, though diagonally from him there may as well be huge blind spots because that's how his attacks are. Great vertical and horizontal range on a lot of attacks, but diagonal has metal blade and that's it. Also, characters with a reflector (looking at you Mario. >_> ) give him a lot of trouble. Flame Sword and Slash Claw are really useful. Villager: Actually probably my favorite of the five. Villager is so weird and unique it's awesome. His slingshot aerials are really good, as I thought, Smash attacks are solid...and holy crap that Down-B is no falcon punch. That thing has the strength of a falcon punch but is also a barricade, an edgeguarding tool, a powerful axe attack when used away from the tree, an attack that can make it so, even if you get hit while watering the tree, the tree can pop up and KO the opponent with almost the strength of the knocked down tree. It's also a lot faster than it looks. His edgeguarding is godly though. |
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Post by Frozazen on Sept 19, 2014 22:01:50 GMT
Got the demo, and I am totally hyped for this December! I really wish that Megaman's neutral buster shot went across the screen. On the other hand, the small hitstun might prove to be dangerous when combined with the other moves. I also kinda wished that metal-blade came out faster, but that just means that Megaman really needs to fight from a distance. I agree with Steve that F-air and B-air are absolutely necessary as close-ranged moves. They come out quickly, and do decent damage, as well. Up-air seems like it could be a good killer when used at a high altitude. I've never seen anything like it, an almost completely projectile-based character that needs to make use of ALL his weapons. Totally going to main Megaman I am so glad that they let you run, jump, and shoot, as well as slide, just like in the original series. It's.... beautiful... |
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Post by Stove on Sept 19, 2014 22:25:32 GMT
Got the demo, and I am totally hyped for this December! I really wish that Megaman's neutral buster shot went across the screen. On the other hand, the small hitstun might prove to be dangerous when combined with the other moves. I also kinda wished that metal-blade came out faster, but that just means that Megaman really needs to fight from a distance. I agree with Steve that F-air and B-air are absolutely necessary as close-ranged moves. They come out quickly, and do decent damage, as well. Up-air seems like it could be a good killer when used at a high altitude. I've never seen anything like it, an almost completely projectile-based character that needs to make use of ALL his weapons. Totally going to main Megaman I am so glad that they let you run, jump, and shoot, as well as slide, just like in the original series. It's.... beautiful... December? Are you not getting the 3DS version? |
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Post by Indigo on Sept 19, 2014 23:28:38 GMT
Mega Man covers his diagonals, too. His jumping A can cover a wide area within his double jump distance. His metal blade can be shot in any diagonal as well, not thrown though. But it covers excellent angles from the air or against the air. Can also aid his recovery, shoot one diagonally or forward towards the ledge (depending on where you're off-stage), it covers a good angle that chasers may take to chase you off-stage. Likewise, it can be shot anywhere after launching someone off-stage and gimp some recoveries. It's really not that slow of an attack, not sure why you say that Frozn. But you can drop a metal blade in front of you and pick it up, it becomes a near-instant tossable version with so little lag you can combo off of its hit after thrown.
Leaf shield can be used in conjunction with the grabbed ninja star, so he can use that as a method of attack while the shield's out. I just realized the shield can block projectiles, because every time projectiles always slipped between the leaves... So it's not reliable, but it can probably be used better against large stuff like Villager's gyroids or gale boomerangs. I think it blocked a Villager's tree, but their AI is so dumb I can't replicate it to test.
His up air is pretty good, but can't really KO even at high percents unless it hits near the ceiling (it mostly just resets their fall). It is, though, an amazing zoning tool. You can shoot an U-Air for pressure and to force them to avoid it, and you can chase them with other aerials as they dodge.
And Villager's pocket is still pretty hilarious, and he's an amazing character just because of it. He can pick up another Villager's tree, or FSmash bowling balls, Mega Man's FSmash... Pikachu's thunder. A single wave of Mario's FLUDD (lol). It kinda puts Kirby to shame... And... Holy crap, Villager is invincible during the whole part of the animation he's flashing. To anything, including melee.
Other stuff: I completely forgot about the new pivot attacks. F-tilt or FSmash out of a pivot (and grabs of course), awesome new stuff now, with tech chasing and dodge punishing, specifically. I think Pikachu's the best for this in the demo, his F-Tilt is great with pivot attacking.
Also love playing Pikachu now, his F-Air has virtually no landing lag now, and Agility can be used very offensively with its new hitstun and knockback, and pseudo-combos off the second hit. I miss spamming Agility with jump-canceling it, but now it's great as an attack. Agility's second hit KOs in Sudden Death, lol. Side-B uncharged got a hefty buff as well, though its ending lag is even worse now. Thunder spikes if the very bottom hits.
And yeah, Link's aerials are superb now, fast, powerful, and very little landing lag. Link feels pretty monstrous to me now as he was my old secondary main.
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Post by Stove on Sept 20, 2014 1:19:29 GMT
Mega Man covers his diagonals, too. His jumping A can cover a wide area within his double jump distance. His metal blade can be shot in any diagonal as well, not thrown though. But it covers excellent angles from the air or against the air. Can also aid his recovery, shoot one diagonally or forward towards the ledge (depending on where you're off-stage), it covers a good angle that chasers may take to chase you off-stage. Likewise, it can be shot anywhere after launching someone off-stage and gimp some recoveries. It's really not that slow of an attack, not sure why you say that Frozn. But you can drop a metal blade in front of you and pick it up, it becomes a near-instant tossable version with so little lag you can combo off of its hit after thrown. Leaf shield can be used in conjunction with the Metal Blade, so he can use that as a method of attack while the shield's out. I just realized the shield can block projectiles, because every time projectiles always slipped between the leaves... So it's not reliable, but it can probably be used better against large stuff like Villager's gyroids or gale boomerangs. I think it blocked a Villager's tree, but their AI is so dumb I can't replicate it to test. His up air is pretty good, but can't really KO even at high percents unless it hits near the ceiling (it mostly just resets their fall). It is, though, an amazing zoning tool. You can shoot an U-Air for pressure and to force them to avoid it, and you can chase them with other aerials as they dodge. And Villager's pocket is still pretty hilarious, and he's an amazing character just because of it. He can pick up another Villager's tree, or FSmash bowling balls, Mega Man's FSmash... Pikachu's thunder. A single wave of Mario's FLUDD (lol). It kinda puts Kirby to shame... And... Holy crap, Villager is invincible during the whole part of the animation he's flashing. To anything, including melee. Other stuff: I completely forgot about the new pivot attacks. F-tilt or FSmash out of a pivot (and grabs of course), awesome new stuff now, with tech chasing and dodge punishing, specifically. I think Pikachu's the best for this in the demo, his F-Tilt is great with pivot attacking. Also love playing Pikachu now, his F-Air has virtually no landing lag now, and Quick Attack can be used very offensively with its new hitstun and knockback, and pseudo-combos off the second hit. I miss spamming Quick Attack with jump-canceling it, but now it's great as an attack. Quick Attack's second hit KOs in Sudden Death, lol. Side-B uncharged got a hefty buff as well, though its ending lag is even worse now. Thunder spikes if the very bottom hits. And yeah, Link's aerials are superb now, fast, powerful, and very little landing lag. Link feels pretty monstrous to me now as he was my old secondary main. Yeah, I saw someone avoid Link's final smash with the Villager pocket. Also, mentioning of Sudden Death, Link's arrows KO in Sudden Death. It's pretty hilarious. Also, I despise the new Pikachu, but the new Mario and the new Link are great. May have to check out Dr. Mario again with Smash 4 (used him a lot in Melee.) |
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Post by Indigo on Sept 20, 2014 1:44:10 GMT
Link's arrows always KO'd in Sudden Death before  Why the Pikachu hate? |
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Post by Stove on Sept 20, 2014 2:11:12 GMT
Link's arrows always KO'd in Sudden Death before Why the Pikachu hate? I was never a big fan of Pikachu before, but the new Pikachu just feels so cruddy. |
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Post by Indigo on Sept 20, 2014 2:24:05 GMT
Why? He actually got some great changes... Minor buffs here and there, overall more nimble. His biggest nerf was a tradeoff. Thunder is weaker, but actually comes out way faster (gotten hit by a random thunder right after hitting him yet?), but has more ending lag. His F-Air now has basically no lag and has medium killing power, and his U-tilt can combo. F-tilt can knock off stage very easily which works great with his running speed as a pivot attack. And he can spike you by jumping high and dropping a thunder down on you. Most satisfying spike. By the way, thoughts on new mechanics? Edge mechanics, the new DI (officially now called Hitstun Shuffling), and rage effect? Edge guarding, of course, now exists as only completely keeping an enemy away from the ledge. If someone's holding onto the ledge and someone else attempts to grab it, they will, and the previous person holding on is bumped off. If someone's on the ledge and someone grabs it with a tether, they'll latch on without bumping anyone off. I love it. I liked edge-hogging, but I think this is better, it's more of a fight for the edge. Tether recoveries are also completely reliable now, and very good at that. Such as Link, he can use his hookshot to get back on stage much more easily and quickly if he's not knocked off very far, and it's practically impossible to punish (and of course, tether recoveries can just stall momentarily while hooked on). I kinda like in the demo the way Link sways if you don't immediately reel in. Hitstun Shuffle! Holding a direction when hit now moves your knockback 'strength' in any direction a set amount. Rather than changing the trajectory (DI), it directly affects your knockback. Of course, the competitive scene has to be all unique and coin everything with their own name so right now it's looking like it will be called vectoring, meh. But anyway, here's a picture that makes it easier to understand. Another change I'm liking. It feels much more smoother, and unlike DI, can't be abused to get out of rapid-hit attacks. Like Pikachu's AAA~ 'combo' could be escaped easily after the first hit by tapping away, now hitstun shuffling still nudges you away, but not weird instant-twitching away. Same with all rapid hit moves, they can actually hit a good amount of times now before the enemy slips away. On the other hand, it looks like some normal combos may be escapable... I saw Greninja punishing an Ike player during his A attack, I think they were hitstun shuffling downwards to avoid being micro-launched for Ike's AAA to be able to block on the ground instantly. And the rage effect. Everyone's a mini-Lucario. Knockback from all of attacks is increased very slightly around 70-100%. However, after 100%, your character gets those little steaming rage clouds, and your attacks will knock around three-character's more length, or a Bowser of length, sort of. Around 150%, about another Bowser of length. Also seems good, slightly rewards players for staying alive with very high percents, possibly giving a little more room for a comeback without being OP if you're down two stocks but start playing well. I can only imagine how Lucario will be at high percents now... |
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Post by Stove on Sept 20, 2014 3:24:18 GMT
Why? He actually got some great changes... Minor buffs here and there, overall more nimble. His biggest nerf was a tradeoff. Thunder is weaker, but actually comes out way faster (gotten hit by a random thunder right after hitting him yet?), but has more ending lag. His F-Air now has basically no lag and has medium killing power, and his U-tilt can combo. F-tilt can knock off stage very easily which works great with his running speed as a pivot attack. And he can spike you by jumping high and dropping a thunder down on you. Most satisfying spike. By the way, thoughts on new mechanics? Edge mechanics, the new DI (officially now called Hitstun Shuffling), and rage effect? Edge guarding, of course, now exists as only completely keeping an enemy away from the ledge. If someone's holding onto the ledge and someone else attempts to grab it, they will, and the previous person holding on is bumped off. If someone's on the ledge and someone grabs it with a tether, they'll latch on without bumping anyone off. I love it. I liked edge-hogging, but I think this is better, it's more of a fight for the edge. Tether recoveries are also completely reliable now, and very good at that. Such as Link, he can use his hookshot to get back on stage much more easily and quickly if he's not knocked off very far, and it's practically impossible to punish (and of course, tether recoveries can just stall momentarily while hooked on). I kinda like in the demo the way Link sways if you don't immediately reel in. - Agreed, this is a welcome change, though when a bunch of people are near an edge it's disruptive to suddenly be forced off.Hitstun Shuffle! Holding a direction when hit now moves your knockback 'strength' in any direction a set amount. Rather than changing the trajectory (DI), it directly affects your knockback. Of course, the competitive scene has to be all unique and coin everything with their own name so right now it's looking like it will be called vectoring, meh. But anyway, here's a picture that makes it easier to understand. Another change I'm liking. It feels much more smoother, and unlike DI, can't be abused to get out of rapid-hit attacks. Like Pikachu's AAA~ 'combo' could be escaped easily after the first hit by tapping away, now hitstun shuffling still nudges you away, but not weird instant-twitching away. Same with all rapid hit moves, they can actually hit a good amount of times now before the enemy slips away. On the other hand, it looks like some normal combos may be escapable... I saw Greninja punishing an Ike player during his A attack, I think they were hitstun shuffling downwards to avoid being micro-launched for Ike's AAA to be able to block on the ground instantly. - Also a welcome change. Also I now know what vectoring is (pointless confusing term change.)And the rage effect. Everyone's a mini-Lucario. Knockback from all of attacks is increased very slightly around 70-100%. However, after 100%, your character gets those little steaming rage clouds, and your attacks will knock around three-character's more length, or a Bowser of length, sort of. Around 150%, about another Bowser of length. Also seems good, slightly rewards players for staying alive with very high percents, possibly giving a little more room for a comeback without being OP if you're down two stocks but start playing well. I can only imagine how Lucario will be at high percents now... - I didn't even know about this (that explains the smoke). It's even more of an advantage for heavies, though a small one. Pretty cool. |
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Post by Indigo on Sept 20, 2014 8:07:27 GMT
Huh, more about edge mechanics. You get invincibility upon grabbing it, but if you drop and grab it again, you'll get none. Also, if you drop, you have to use your up-b to grab the ledge again (tether won't work either).
Seems like grabbing the ledge just as someone else does to bump them off can be a pretty good tactic, too.
Bowser looks pretty incredible right now. Easily survives 150%+, and has a huge arsenal of kill moves. B-air can kill light characters at 60%, others around 80%. Good overall, and very fast...
I'll leave this here. This guy's doing 10 For Glory matches with every character daily, this is just the third day. Only 'spoilers' I'll be watching till release. The player's pretty good and gives general insight on characters in a competitive setting, but is also learning as the videos go.
He insists Bowser is absurd and top 3, but I think he's extremely punishable and pretty predictable, but no doubt, Bowser's kicking back in as an extremely potent fighter.
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Post by Stove on Sept 20, 2014 13:52:52 GMT
^Shofu's been saying that with Bowser ever since his matches with TheJWittz (who mains Bowser and ROB). Bowser is insane now, but like Ike in brawl, people will begin to notice and abuse his flaws.
I will say that Bowser's better than he's ever been, and I love it.
...of course, it comes at a time I'm ready to stick Bowser as a secondary. I'm maining Robin, with Bowser as a secondary, and Dr. Mario, Lucina, Kirby, Palutena, Dr.Mario, Little Mac and maybe a couple others. That's most of what interests me in the roster.
Who are you debating using?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 14:44:05 GMT
I know you didn't ask me specifically but I'm much more interested in Villager than I was before the demo, so he's always an option. I'm obviously looking forward to Shulk, although his Monado gimmick might be difficult to manage. Otherwise Robin, Palutena, Greninja, and Rosalina look great to me, so I just need to wait and see how they'll feel to play. As for older characters, it's MetaKnight, Jigglypuff, and Marth/Lucina for me, but I doubt I'll invest much time in them.
I've read up on some of the character's custom moves on the wiki, and a lot of them seem really interesting. For example, if I recall correctly, Gannondorf gets an alternate neutral special where he thrusts his sword instead of punching. Villager can also grow bigger trees and megaman gets different robot master weapons. Stuff like that really, I'm glad custom moves and Mii fighters will be available when playing with friends online.
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Post by Stove on Sept 20, 2014 15:48:53 GMT
I know you didn't ask me specifically but I'm much more interested in Villager than I was before the demo, so he's always an option. I'm obviously looking forward to Shulk, although his Monado gimmick might be difficult to manage. Otherwise Robin, Palutena, Greninja, and Rosalina look great to me, so I just need to wait and see how they'll feel to play. As for older characters, it's MetaKnight, Jigglypuff, and Marth/Lucina for me, but I doubt I'll invest much time in them. I've read up on some of the character's custom moves on the wiki, and a lot of them seem really interesting. For example, if I recall correctly, Gannondorf gets an alternate neutral special where he thrusts his sword instead of punching. Villager can also grow bigger trees and megaman gets different robot master weapons. Stuff like that really, I'm glad custom moves and Mii fighters will be available when playing with friends online. It was directed at anyone, really. But yeah, Shulk reminds me of Ike and Dedede (I said that with Bowser, but I'm serious) laggy attacks with great power and range, and (by default) a pretty slow character. I'm interested to see how he is overall. Also, I'm really gravitating towards Mario in the demo. His combo-ability is really, really good. I may have to check Dr. out again when the game is out. (I feel like I've said this before.) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 16:24:36 GMT
I'm glad that Ike is back, I got used to fighting him all the time in brawl because my friend used to main him. He feels really stiff to control though. Shulk looks much faster and more fluid, so to me he looks like he'll play closer to Marth or Link. The Monado buffs also seem incomparable to other characters, hopefully the added speed will allow him to actually hit his opponents back with backslash. I love how Kirby is just given a Monado if he absorbs Shulk. Does that pink puffball know that he essentially copied God? That's some mad skills. |
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Post by Stove on Sept 20, 2014 16:31:22 GMT
I'm glad that Ike is back, I got used to fighting him all the time in brawl because my friend used to main him. He feels really stiff to control though. Shulk looks much faster and more fluid, so to me he looks like he'll play closer to Marth or Link. The Monado buffs also seem incomparable to other characters, hopefully the added speed will allow him to actually hit his opponents back with backslash. I love how Kirby is just given a Monado if he absorbs Shulk. Does that pink puffball know that he essentially copied God? That's some mad skills. The best part is that he doesn't care. |
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