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Post by Frozazen on Aug 29, 2014 19:55:16 GMT
Admin is convulsing somewhere right now XD
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Post by Stove on Aug 31, 2014 3:12:58 GMT
Admin is convulsing somewhere right now XD Yes. That aside, the more I look at a lot of characters, the more nervous I get that the balance will be even more crazy than Brawl. Palutena and Shulk both have an ability that makes them faster than SONIC. Sure, it comes with drawbacks, but both Palutena and Shulk appear to be much stronger than Sonic (at least in brawl where his KO'ing potential was almost nonexistant.) There's also Robin's Nosferatu and Bowser in general being faster but still overwhelmingly strong. A lot of veterans seem largely unchanged except for Bowser, which is not a good thing since if this is true then they'll be left in the dust by the likes of Greninja, Bowser, Robin, Palutena and Shulk. |
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Post by Indigo on Aug 31, 2014 3:57:56 GMT
Palutena's a weird case, considering custom movesets aren't very official... Some modes in the game already don't allow them, and online, with friends only. Competitive play is leaning towards not allowing custom movesets already... Although that's mainly because they say it could possibly take too much time for every player in a tournament to set up moves. Either way, we've yet to see much of Palutena, her normals may suck, and she obviously has some gimmicky stuff going on with her smash attacks. She seems like a pure gimmick character that will rely on mindgames and her powers, which look a bit slow and/or predictable, movement speed power aside (which seems very unorthodox for her playstyle).
Shulk looks like he has very dominant range and decent power, but he actually seemed pretty slow overall in attacks, those smash attacks looked super punishable. All of his buffs come with a mirror drawback that gives the opponent an equal edge against Shulk.
I'm pretty sure Sakurai knows what he's doing. Marth and Meta Knight (presumably for the latter) got nerfed, so he can't be completely oblivious with all these broken-looking movesets. Nosferatu is the main thing that interests me... But for all we know, it could be as hard to hit with as a Falcon Punch, or even Warlock Punch.
Oh, the veterans did get changed, though (not just the nerfed ones), not sure why you say that. Zelda and Sheik got redesigned to be better as single characters, and Link got some buffs as well... Pit is amazing now (lol Sakurai bias but I don't blame him). Kirby got a faster hammer attack... There's likely more but you get my point.
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Post by Stove on Aug 31, 2014 4:36:25 GMT
All those buffs/nerfs so far that we know are pretty minor.
The only thing Zelda has over her brawl version is phantom knight, which from everything I've heard isn't a good attack. Shiek's Burst Grenades are apparently very good, but that's still all she has, and chances are DACUS from Brawl isn't coming back, making her Up Smash much less effective.
Fox, who was already a meh character, has been badly nerfed it seems. Shine is much, much worse than before, and Up-Smash's legendary kill potential is gone.
Pit seems improved for the most part. Upperdash Arm is pretty solid as is his new recovery, but...STUPID GUARDIAN ORBITARS. They only block projectiles unlike the awesome mirror shield which could block normal attacks and crazy crud like Samus's final smash.
Marth was a good character, but he didn't really need a nerf. Meta Knight...I think Brawl Meta Knight would be evenly matched with (or worse than) most of the characters I mentioned last post.
Oh, but you reminded me; ZSS is looking to be a little crazy now too. She seems to be buffed; one only needs to look at the finale of the invitational to see ZSS's wrath. Even though Hungrybox is a better player, ZSS's reach is incredible, and no longer has a meh recovery like her Brawl counterpart.
None of Palutena's moves seem particularly bad. This is still speculation of course, but she looks fine.
I have an issue with no customization features/mii fighters in random online. That is not right; what if someone mains Mii Brawler but can't use it in random online? That's hardly fair. I'd say I'll be steering clear of random online...probably.
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Post by Indigo on Aug 31, 2014 5:32:44 GMT
Veterans don't really need big changes, though. Characters like Link got enough good changes to make them better overall and stand better against the reasons they were considered bad. Some just didn't really need many changes at all, but you never know, there can be many little changes that we'll have to experience firsthand, especially how the neutral game of all the characters may have changed. Like Fox may be a lot better simply because of thew new jab-combos actually being combos, and maybe his other aerials are stronger and such.
I like Pit's orbitars though... The shield was crazy for some things, but it felt too defensive, especially when he had a Side-B that attacked with high priority while also reflecting. I feel the orbitars are a more stylish alternative, now he has a shield that's also an attack (so it does work against melee), not to mention it works on both his sides. I hear his side-B now has amazing super armor and is godlike in its aerial version...
Marth actually was considered top 5 though... He was fast, extremely good aerials, hit like Bowser with tippers, could pseudo-combo from a grab into a meteor smash, and has the best counter. As for Zelda, she looks pretty good to me, but she seems more defensive than ever now, and a counter is a counter... I think she'll seem better once people adapt to her new iteration. Sheik still has her f-tilt comboing (including into u-smash), if that hasn't changed since they had the demos in stores, and her new bouncing fish special is looking great for angular attacks/mobility.
I agree on custom moves, though, it seems silly they're restricted, I guess they're either just too much to balance test, or are 'for-fun' variants where there's probably some stupidly good ones, or just plain better than the defaults. Mii Fighters being locked makes some sense, but it's disappointing that it's the case with all custom movesets... I don't really play online with randoms, at least.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 13:16:35 GMT
Robin's tomes and Levin Sword break after repeated use like in the games and he needs to wait for them to come back. He'll have a ceiling on mid tier because of that. Perfect imbalance is also a thing, a game isn't necessarily bad competitively just because some characters are slightly better than others, not to mention we haven't even played the thing yet. |
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Post by Metal on Sept 5, 2014 5:13:32 GMT
Yes, however, the whole thing about "size" can be easily remedied. You've played SMG, correct? Sunshine? Remember how huge Bowser was in comparison to Mario? Aside from the RPGs and the early, early Mario platformers, Bowser is far, far bigger than Mario, and was scaled down for smash. If Bowser can, why can't Ridley? Olimar and Kirby have been scaled up. Size is unimportant for smash. I don't play much Metroid. I've beaten Super Metroid and that's it. However, I do think Metroid should have another rep, seeing as how it's "one of nintendo's main series" but still only has one rep, and frankly Ridley is the best option there is to my knowledge. could use either sax (from fusion) dark samus (from prime series) any of the other hunters (prime 3 and prime hunters) or the space pirates too. though id say ridley is probably the most well known, or kraid, but kraid would be lame. and i doubt they use either of the samus clones because theyd be just that, samus clones. wait they could include one of the other characters in other m, like adam or the other guy with the plasma gun. although adam is technically dead and is possessing samus current (if you go by the timeline) ship, so idk how hed work. maybe turn into the ship for a final smash? no idea. though i have also heard rumors of dlc characters being implemented possibly which brawl desperately needed imo, so itd be good to include it, a. because mewtwo could be dlc  and so could metroid characters, like say weevil and trace. and like black shadow from f zero, maybe like ice climbers and another character from earth bound/mother series etc.. plenty of possibilities there. so theres that option too. fingers crossed they actually do dlc characters as the wii u seems more eqiupped for online than the wii was. |
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Post by VerdantShade on Sept 9, 2014 1:00:08 GMT
With my own two cents, I worry that Metroid isn't represented much beyond Samus and Zero Suit Samus because, quite frankly, it's not that big in Japan - well, mostly the Prime FPS games weren't big in Japan. In fact, Japan's not big on FPS in general. It's not got a "hatedom" or anything, it's just. . . apathy.
Honestly, there is potential, it's just not being utilized - which isn't TOO bad for gameplay, since ZSS and Samus are pretty different gameplay wise, but it does miss a great chance to "Advertise" the series's less known aspects like the Hunters and what not.
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Post by Stove on Sept 11, 2014 1:52:52 GMT
Smash 4 demo hype~
Just from what I've seen (since everyone really gets to experiment now, even if it's only 5 characters) it seems like:
Mario is even worse. Almost Everyone else got buffs here and there but he stayed pretty much the same.
Link has buffs here and there, looking generally faster and stronger in every regard.
Pikachu...see Mario.
Villager is freaking amazing. Slingshot aireals do amazing knockback for such a quick ranged attack, Tree isn't useless like I thought, his smashes are good, solid recovery provided he doesn't get hit, Dash attack has a HUGE range, his grab range is great for such a tiny character, Pocket is amazing...et cetera.
Mega man, as I thought, has a huge difficulty curve. He's clearly very good, but very hard to use.
And that's all we get until saturday when it explodes.
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Post by Indigo on Sept 11, 2014 2:04:29 GMT
And a leak of (almost) all of the character's alt colors... Anyway, don't judge just from the outside, it's the small changes that make a difference: youtu.be/ABQjWemFIDM?t=10sMario's definitely better despite staying very similar Mega Man right now has hax where he can use up-b to cancel hitstun and bounce away. |
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Post by Stove on Sept 11, 2014 3:21:22 GMT
^Mario has been able to do all of that since Melee. The game itself has changed; the only difference for Mario is his more combo-friendly down throw. Everything else is near identical.
Also, I was wrong about Pika. It seems to be weaker than before.
As for Mega Man, Super Armor is not a big deal. It's helpful, but not a big deal.
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Post by Indigo on Sept 11, 2014 5:16:07 GMT
Everything seems nearly identical, but Mario is clearly better than in Brawl. It's not just his down-throw, he's overall much more nimble, his attacks give more advantageous knockback (some even link at lower percents), and are also faster. He's the same, but overhauled, just doesn't have anything new and shiny.
And Mega Man in the demo is actually cheets for real. What I meant by canceling hit stun is that he can instantly up-b out of non-launching attacks and jump out at frame 1. i.e. he can just up-b out of AAA combos breaking out of any hitstun. It's kinda funny, and obviously a bug.
His leaf shield is interesting though, it seems to just work like Fox's lasers...
And Villager is looking extremely capable, there's already a combo video showing that he can be pretty scary.
P.S. y Sakurai taunt us in the PotD
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Post by Stove on Sept 11, 2014 12:00:09 GMT
Sakurai...why?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 19:47:40 GMT
Apparently Japanese players got their hands on official copies of the 3DS release early. Retailers selling stock early.
So Duck Hunt Dog and Bowser Junior are in the game. I haven't looked in to much else, though.
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Post by Stove on Sept 11, 2014 21:15:49 GMT
That would be Super Armor, Claxus.
Also, that leak was right. ...yay. Also not yay, but yay.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 21:35:50 GMT
What were you hoping for instead?
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Post by Indigo on Sept 11, 2014 21:40:49 GMT
Man, I know what super armor is. youtu.be/y1aLKgGvQug?t=1m42sThat's canceling hitstun the instant he gets hit (when inputs shouldn't even register), not tanking a hit without flinching. I'm kinda sad we didn't get an awesome late "Kept you waiting, huh?" surprise... I'll miss Snake in the roster. A few odd cuts, but that's still a ton of characters and all the new ones are great enough to offset the less popular veterans. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 21:55:36 GMT
Man, I know what super armor is. youtu.be/y1aLKgGvQug?t=1m42sThat's canceling hitstun the instant he gets hit (when inputs shouldn't even register), not tanking a hit without flinching. I'm kinda sad we didn't get an awesome late "Kept you waiting, huh?" surprise... I'll miss Snake in the roster. A few odd cuts, but that's still a ton of characters and all the new ones are great enough to offset the less popular veterans. Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr and the koopalings, Ness, Mr Game and Watch, Dark Pit, Falco Wario, Dr Mario, Gannondorf, etc. A lot of them were leaked, but not officially announced. |
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Post by Indigo on Sept 11, 2014 22:34:51 GMT
Nah, I meant as in Snake's catchphrase. It would have been great to see him make a surprise return so late, preferably with a final trailer featuring that signature phrase. I'll miss him in Smash.
I have to say though. much as I'm glad we got Dark Pit, it's strange that the Ice Climbers are no more... Even though they weren't very popular like some of the other vets, they were super unique, and kind of got all of their glory from Smash.
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Post by Stove on Sept 11, 2014 22:38:51 GMT
Ridley.
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I made a thing... Long live Gotcha Force!!!
