wind valkyrie

[Deleted]

how does one actually use the wind attack to actually do something worth putting her in a force for?

[dillybar64]

You do not.
She is a garbage borg in PC hands.
She was made to be an bothersome AI borg.
She was made solely to be an enemy.
Don't use her.
If you do, take her off of your team and put on a Magnet Robot instead.
He is still bad, but is significantly better than Wind Valkyrie.

[Deleted]

but magnet robot can't fly.....

[Frozazen]

woahnow guys, even though wind valkyrie may not be all that good, you can still wing glide like any other borg with the "Fly" move.

i personally use her because i like the way she looks, but if you want to go for kick-buttness, then wind valkyrie really isn't as good as like an ice or slow valkyrie, who have better moves

the wind attack thing does not work on projectiles, and only works on the borg itself, so if you want to protect yourself from like a death icbm or some other super close-ranged borg, then you can go ahead and use her. otherwise, you'd have to use her as a support borg, possible shoving the enemy into the corner of a map while the partner takes out the borg. that could be useful on maybe acceleration ninja and pretty much any borg that can be shoved into the corner like that, but that would take some tremendious skill to pull off

[dillybar64]

Jun 4, 2011 20:43:47 GMT @raos said:

but magnet robot can't fly.....

It doesn't matter.
Wind Valk is significantly more vulnerable when using her wind attack.
Her wind attack pushes enemies away, Magnet Robot can pull them in and punch them.
Wind Valk is brittle and has little offensive abilities. Just a few lucky hits will put her out of commission.
Magnet Robot is a robot. All robots are decent off tanks to say the very least. He will punch pretty hard and be able to absorb a fair number of the shots he can't dodge before going down.

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2011 4:38:50 GMT dillybar64 said:

Jun 4, 2011 20:43:47 GMT @raos said:

but magnet robot can't fly.....

It doesn't matter.
Wind Valk is significantly more vulnerable when using her wind attack.
Her wind attack pushes enemies away, Magnet Robot can pull them in and punch them.
Wind Valk is brittle and has little offensive abilities. Just a few lucky hits will put her out of commission.
Magnet Robot is a robot. All robots are decent off tanks to say the very least. He will punch pretty hard and be able to absorb a fair number of the shots he can't dodge before going down.

Getting hit on a borg that can fly? You sure that you're using them right? And a few lucky hits is really exaggerating it isn't it? I tried her out for while using coolfreez's ideas and I've found If you use her like you're supposed to, you don't get hit until you do the wind attack at the wrong time. The wind attack from my experience seems to be support based, to knock people into an ally's range (me and nekobe's chainsaw knight had a fun time with this) or to knock an ally away from something, or an enemy away from their firing position so they miss. I guess she's just situational. I don't see how magnet robot could possibly be better than a borg that can fly. (Flying is awesome)

EDIT: just noticed the topic had been in the wrong section, my bad

[dillybar64]

Jun 5, 2011 5:01:51 GMT @raos said:

Jun 5, 2011 4:38:50 GMT dillybar64 said:

It doesn't matter.
Wind Valk is significantly more vulnerable when using her wind attack.
Her wind attack pushes enemies away, Magnet Robot can pull them in and punch them.
Wind Valk is brittle and has little offensive abilities. Just a few lucky hits will put her out of commission.
Magnet Robot is a robot. All robots are decent off tanks to say the very least. He will punch pretty hard and be able to absorb a fair number of the shots he can't dodge before going down.

Getting hit on a borg that can fly? You sure that you're using them right? And a few lucky hits is really exaggerating it isn't it? I tried her out for while using coolfreez's ideas and I've found If you use her like you're supposed to, you don't get hit until you do the wind attack at the wrong time. The wind attack from my experience seems to be support based, to knock people into an ally's range (me and nekobe's chainsaw knight had a fun time with this) or to knock an ally away from something, or an enemy away from their firing position so they miss. I guess she's just situational. I don't see how magnet robot could possibly be better than a borg that can fly. (Flying is awesome)

EDIT: just noticed the topic had been in the wrong section, my bad

Metagame is just different at my house I guess.
People are used to heavy dodging so we handle it well.

[Frozazen]

although i'd need to test it more, i wouldn't think that you could get away from being shoved in a corner from wind valkyrie's wind attack.

i'd want to know if you could dodge laterally stil, because obviously you can't move towards wind valkyrie, and also i'd want to know the range of wind valkyrie's attack, because you'd have to fly at that distance if you were to put your opponent where you want him.

[yuurei]

I've pinned and been pinned by a wind fairy before. You can usually sidestep but unless you have a move that makes you move quite fast you can't move toward her. You can also just shoot her because she's immobile while pushing you or you can try and jump over her. I'm not quite sure about her range with the fan though.

[Dogmantra]

Jun 5, 2011 2:17:49 GMT Frozazen said:

woahnow guys, even though wind valkyrie may not be all that good, you can still wing glide like any other borg with the "Fly" move.

Just means she's overpriced. Take Gold Hero. He can stay in the air forever and he has a useful X.

[Deleted]

She is always usefull to me in multiplayer because her wind pushes them back and my partner would be able to get them while they are distracted. She is useful to me but I can see how she wouldn't be.

[Frozazen]

Jun 6, 2011 18:49:51 GMT Dogmantra said:

Jun 5, 2011 2:17:49 GMT Frozazen said:

woahnow guys, even though wind valkyrie may not be all that good, you can still wing glide like any other borg with the "Fly" move.

Just means she's overpriced. Take Gold Hero. He can stay in the air forever and he has a useful X.

hm? wing gliding is pretty useful. with the added speed and maneuvering, it makes borgs with the "Fly" ability much harder to hit, and they can still shoot while at this speed, so i really don't see what's wrong with it. since borgs like gold hero and normal ninja have that little bit of lag between air dashes, when you wing glide it happens much less often, since you can use up your fly gauge, and can still keep on speeding along for a full second or so afterwords (you know that wing gliding isn't the same thing as Fly, right? just making sure)

[dillybar64]

Jun 7, 2011 3:41:32 GMT Frozazen said:

Jun 6, 2011 18:49:51 GMT Dogmantra said:

Just means she's overpriced. Take Gold Hero. He can stay in the air forever and he has a useful X.

hm? wing gliding is pretty useful. with the added speed and maneuvering, it makes borgs with the "Fly" ability much harder to hit, and they can still shoot while at this speed, so i really don't see what's wrong with it. since borgs like gold hero and normal ninja have that little bit of lag between air dashes, when you wing glide it happens much less often, since you can use up your fly gauge, and can still keep on speeding along for a full second or so afterwords (you know that wing gliding isn't the same thing as Fly, right? just making sure)

They aren't saying that there is anything wrong with it.
They are saying that if that is all she has going for her than she is overpriced and lame compared to some of the more effective flying characters.

[Frozazen]

ahhh i see. i kinda want to see someone good put the wind attack to use, though. if you use it right, it makes wind valkyrie a REALLY good support borg, even better than arrow ninja, because his arrows can be dodged. or you could even use wind valkyrie's wind attack to make sure that arrow hits, but that'd be kind of redundant...

[dillybar64]

Jun 7, 2011 16:41:20 GMT Frozazen said:

ahhh i see. i kinda want to see someone good put the wind attack to use, though. if you use it right, it makes wind valkyrie a REALLY good support borg, even better than arrow ninja, because his arrows can be dodged. or you could even use wind valkyrie's wind attack to make sure that arrow hits, but that'd be kind of redundant...

But... why would you ever need support borgs if you could build a team of Cyber Ninja's and then have you ally be a team of Cyber Ninjas (instead of a team with Wind Valk on it)?

[Death Eye]

Jun 7, 2011 16:54:57 GMT dillybar64 said:

Jun 7, 2011 16:41:20 GMT Frozazen said:

ahhh i see. i kinda want to see someone good put the wind attack to use, though. if you use it right, it makes wind valkyrie a REALLY good support borg, even better than arrow ninja, because his arrows can be dodged. or you could even use wind valkyrie's wind attack to make sure that arrow hits, but that'd be kind of redundant...

But... why would you ever need support borgs if you could build a team of Cyber Ninja's and then have you ally be a team of Cyber Ninjas (instead of a team with Wind Valk on it)?

Because that would be too easy.
After all, the game is pretty much entirely pointless if you automatically win.
That's why the other borgs exist.

[Frozazen]

actually, cyber ninja would have a pretty hard time fighting winged borgs. that's one of the reasons why Garuda is so OP, since the height messes with the camera angle as well as cyber ninja's aim. The way I see it, if everyone was playing with the optimal strategy, i would think a lot of strategies would be able to take out pure beatdown teams like cyber ninjas. since cyber ninja relies on fast dodging and spamming, i would think that shoving him into a corner would be almost fatal, specially if you have a nonflinching dragon as an ally, who doesn't have to turn or aim or anything like that. you could almost consider wind valkyrie broken as a support borg, being able to fly and having the ability to lock an enemy to one spot.

of course, i haven't even tested to see if wind valkyrie is even ABLE to stick you into a corner yet. TO THE WII!!!!

[dillybar64]

Jun 10, 2011 20:54:59 GMT Frozazen said:

actually, cyber ninja would have a pretty hard time fighting winged borgs. that's one of the reasons why Garuda is so OP, since the height messes with the camera angle as well as cyber ninja's aim. The way I see it, if everyone was playing with the optimal strategy, i would think a lot of strategies would be able to take out pure beatdown teams like cyber ninjas. since cyber ninja relies on fast dodging and spamming, i would think that shoving him into a corner would be almost fatal, specially if you have a nonflinching dragon as an ally, who doesn't have to turn or aim or anything like that. you could almost consider wind valkyrie broken as a support borg, being able to fly and having the ability to lock an enemy to one spot.

of course, i haven't even tested to see if wind valkyrie is even ABLE to stick you into a corner yet. TO THE WII!!!!

The problem is
1.) Good luck getting Sonic the frikking Hedgehog into a corner.
2.) Good luck keeping him there enough for it to matter
3.) Most borgs that can strong arm him into a corner are no good against him (like Wind Valk)
4.) It doesn't matter if you can fly. He shoots so many beams and he is so fast that he will still hit you more than you will hit him.

Trust me. Snarf loves Cyber Ninja and abuses him all the time. I have been able to extensively test this stuff with someone who is far from perfect staring down the short end of a skill gap while using under leveled Cyber Ninja's.
I struggled.
Now imagine things on an even playing field...

[Frozazen]

okay i just finished running a pretty extensive test on wind valkyrie. bottom line is..... she sucks. her range isn't all that good, she has a massive amount of lag, and she always manages to look forward after two or so fan strokes. the only thing she has that is decent average is her mobility, since all of the wing/angel borgs have the fly ability, and they all have infinite jumps, too, thus infinite airdashes, plus the extra airdashes you can shove in just by jumping a little bit. though she may be able to dodge a good number of cyber ninja's shots, she is in no way capable of keeping him in one place. here's what i found out so far:

1. in order to use the wind, you have to get use to the lag she has prior to letting it loose. even that split second allows cyber ninja to end up practically behind her
2. after you finish using the wind, there is also an enormous amount of lag after she stops making strokes.
3. she cannot push anyone while they are flinching, i.e. with the yellow circle around the targeting circle
4. when you are facing against the wind, you can move in any direction lateral to the base of the pyramid-shaped attack. since cyber ninja has a pretty long boost jump, he is capable of jumping over the attack if wind valkyrie is standing on the ground, even if she is at the optimal distance, in which the base of the pyramid creates a "wall" around the corner containing the cyber ninja.
5. if wind valkyrie is looking down at a borg from the air at the optimal 45 degree angle, then there is nothing you can do movement-wise to escape. YOU ARE COMPLETELY LOCKED IN. you have no choice but to use ranged moves. this is probably the only upside to my research.
6. you can blow your ally along with your opponent.
7. when the wind is used against a winged opponent, i.e. Garuda, wind valkyrie is only successful in pushing the opponent downwards, and cannot trap him in any way (since you're in the air, all you have to do is move out of the way before going for wind valkyrie)
8. although wind valkyrie is stationary while fanning, she will direct the blow in the direction of the opponent for as long as the opponent is stationary or is moving at a uniform speed (running or even acceleration ninja's Ninpo Full Throttle). in this way her wind is like a big beam, as sapphire knight's and beam gunner's beams will follow an opponent if they are moving at a constant speed. however, as soon as the opponent does an airdash or a ground dash, the fan attack will stop moving, and wind valkyrie will truly be fanning in place.

as much as i like wind valkyrie, she really is not that useful, unless the opponent is ground-based, and is either really big or really slow, like proto red or something, and even then you would be in trouble, since the wind has no effect on the enemy when the enemy is flinching, so he can just escape and kill wind valkyrie easily

well then, i'll probably be testing out more stuff on wind valkyrie and putting it here, just because i'm curious about what would happen, like if wind valkyrie was caught by a chainsaw knight, and other stuff.

hope this helped!

EDIT: oh yeah, and all of my testing was done at blue death base, with only the four corners to trap your opponent. if you fight in other places wind valkyrie would probably be better there, since first of all the ceilings are so much lower, allowing wind valkyrie's ally to attack the enemy Garuda, and the spaces are much more confined, making wind valkyrie's fan attack proportionally larger, and thus having a higher probability to trap an opponent.

[dillybar64]

^Wow.
Stellar job.
Thanks for helping us settle this debate