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Post by Indigo on Dec 5, 2013 4:36:09 GMT
So I got started on it. Just to make things a little more fun, I won't be using any partners, and I'll be adding borgs to my pool as I progress through the game at certain points (aside from my own), in the order people suggested them. Here's what I went with:
Metal - Sonic Samurai / Sword Knight
Death Eye - Spike Knight / Victory Tank
Frozn - Time Bomber / Wire Girl
Clax - Teleport Ninja / Copy Man
Njay - Tar Diver / Sekhmet Witch
Carigun - Carrier Helicopter / Carigun Helicopter
Spike - Hammer Robot / Megaton Robot
Steve - Pop Honey / Death Borg Delta II
VerdantShade - Tao Master / Alien Insect
Taz - Shadow Girl / Arrow Ninja
Megatonrobot - Switching Ninja / Acceleration Ninja
As you all know, the start of the game is a real pushover. So I say my run here has officially started on this mission, Showdown with Nekobe! I think it's the first real mission where the game really starts stacking the odds against you, and the AI seems a bit more competent than at the beginning. Plus, it's followed by the first 'boss,' the Flame Dragon!
The adventure begins as Teleport Ninja battles the local bully, and ends up in an ambush! After putting up a good fight, all seems lost... Until Metal Sword Knight drops in to finish the job! Though not by a longshot... And a bond is quickly established!
Things I've learned: This is a little harder than it sounded. I really need to work on my Knight borg skills. Sword Knight can be really stylish spamming his shield throw in hyper mode.
With no time to rest, our two heroes find the Death Force has sent out an assault with the massive Flame Dragon... How will these two melee borgs deal with this? Stay tuned...
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Post by Spike on Dec 5, 2013 8:12:30 GMT
Victory Tank, if I remember correctly, doesn't appear until later in the game. So if your starting from scratch, that might take you a while to gradually add them all in.
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Post by Stove on Dec 5, 2013 9:22:07 GMT
You weren't kidding with teleport ninja...that was all eye candy to watch.
Though I agree, your Sword Knight needs work. The Shield is intended for close range, having only slightly better range than the sword slashes. You can use it before you do a sword combo to get extra damage. It takes 8(?) shield attacks to knock back an opponent, so there's that.
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njayhuang
Staff Member 
Cyber Ninja
Without Asuka from Germany, everybody would be lost
Posts: 3,472
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Post by njayhuang on Dec 5, 2013 15:57:08 GMT
You weren't kidding with teleport ninja...that was all eye candy to watch. Though I agree, your Sword Knight needs work. The Shield is intended for close range, having only slightly better range than the sword slashes. You can use it before you do a sword combo to get extra damage. It takes 8(?) shield attacks to knock back an opponent, so there's that. In my experience, it's about 10 single-hits (probably more for multi-hit attacks) so 8 shield hits plus 2 from the sword slash sounds right to me. But keep in mind that the closer they get to flinching, the less damage they take from attacks. If you're trying to finish a combo with a strong move, sometimes it might be better to cut out a few of the weaker steps so the finisher can deal more damage. Like in the video starting at 1:00, Teleport Ninja gets hit by Chainsaw Knight. First swing does 74 damage, second swing does 42, third swing does 14, and the fourth swing does 2. Teleport Ninja escapes one hit away from flinching, then Magnet Robot comes in and finishes with his machine-borg melee. It only hits for 3. In ^that case, Chainsaw Knight is strong too so it's probably okay that Magnet Robot only did 3 damage, but if instead of Chainsaw Knight's melee it was a weak attack used repeatedly to get Tele near flinching, then it would be a better idea to stop chipping away 2 or 3 HP and end the combo with a finisher that does more damage than those chips. Back on topic though, I don't have the experience with Sword Knight to know the optimal number of shield hits. Maybe you should just go for as many hits as you can, Iunno. |
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Post by Death Eye on Dec 5, 2013 17:29:54 GMT
Things I've learned: This is a little harder than it sounded. I really need to work on my Knight borg skills. Yeah, I can tell solely by the fact that you tried that stab attack that you don't typically use Sword Knight. You pretty much never want to do that, it's horribly slow and not all that powerful. If you're going to dash forward and do an attack you're probably better off doing a shield throw and a normal combo, it's only slightly slower somehow despite it being about four attacks. |
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Post by Frozazen on Dec 5, 2013 18:07:51 GMT
I love the way you use Teleport Ninja, but sometimes you initiate a combo using a ground attack, which gives you terrible lag.  Also I noticed that you side-stepped shots while using your Sword Knight. The thing I find dangerous about sword Knight is that he can block almost every shot while charging his B, and when the enemy comes in close, he lets loose two quick slashes that do a lot of damage and knockback. Use your shield to block more often is what I'd suggest  |
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Post by Metal on Dec 6, 2013 0:40:54 GMT
Nice. I wish i had videos..... oh well Your better than i am with both of those borgs XD though i would say your sword knight isnt all terrible. Just needs a little polish. Oh and umm starve the vamp knights next time? Thats my tactic for fighting him. Fight everything else first so he is near death from his health drain thing. Then finish him in one attack  its the best way to watch him die. Gg either way. You did loads better than i did against that fight. Goodluck on the rest of the run. Especially sho. |
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Post by Indigo on Dec 6, 2013 2:19:44 GMT
I love the way you use Teleport Ninja, but sometimes you initiate a combo using a ground attack, which gives you terrible lag. His aerial melee isn't that powerful, despite how great it is. It also has a little bit of startup lag. His dashing melee does about the same damage, but has faster startup. And his normal ground combo does over half as much damage. Honestly, none of his melee attacks are so much laggy as immobile, his combos are really quick, but he can teleport at any point of any melee attack, teleport attack included, so it's actually easily remedied and makes all of his attacks worth using. Victory Tank, if I remember correctly, doesn't appear until later in the game. So if your starting from scratch, that might take you a while to gradually add them all in. Nah, it's not a brand new play. It'd actually be impossible to play through the game like this if I was starting from scratch >_> I just meant I've sort of 'locked' borgs and will be adding them to my play as I see fit. Nice. I wish i had videos..... oh well Goodluck on the rest of the run. Especially sho. Just post more about your battles. From your first post, all we really know is you beat Nekobe and Kitsune and opened with Sonic Samurai But as for Sho... To be honest, I think I'm at a loss there. Though it may be possible with the next borg in line... That aside, thanks for all the advice, everyone. I've never used Knight Borgs for more than just trying them out before, except Hammer Knight. Unfortunately I didn't get much of a chance to improve on the next battle: Not much showing off here, but I guess it is possible to beat Flame Dragon with just these two borgs. Mainly Teleport Ninja with hyper mode... But Sword Knight deals some decent finishing damage. It was pretty tough though, took several tries, especially with all the little death borgs you can't rid of permanently. I won't have a video for everything, just for fights that are more challenging and worth watching... And Frozn Wire Girl will be making her appearance next time! |
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Post by Stove on Dec 6, 2013 3:05:16 GMT
G Red: WHOOOOOOOOO!!! i want to make that a text tone. |
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njayhuang
Staff Member
Cyber Ninja
Without Asuka from Germany, everybody would be lost
Posts: 3,472
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Post by njayhuang on Dec 6, 2013 3:16:29 GMT
[insert video] Not much showing off here, but I guess it is possible to beat Flame Dragon with just these two borgs. Mainly Teleport Ninja with hyper mode... But Sword Knight deals some decent finishing damage. It was pretty tough though, took several tries, especially with all the little death borgs you can't rid of permanently. I won't have a video for everything, just for fights that are more challenging and worth watching... And Frozn Wire Girl will be making her appearance next time! Woah, close fight. Standing on that spot on the dragon's back to melee, that was pretty good. Personally, I would have waited until I was in place ready to attack before activating Y so I could get that extra second or so of burst, but you won in the end and that's what matters. |
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Post by Spike on Dec 6, 2013 8:06:48 GMT
Hey Clax, did you know that Teleport Ninja can Rain of Pain? Also given the fact that Teleport Slash charges pretty fast, you didn't need to keep it charged at all times, since you can use those teleports to move much faster.
...That aside, though, why did you move Teleport Ninja to be within Flame Dragon's range? O,o
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Post by Death Eye on Dec 6, 2013 8:40:46 GMT
That was an odd way of handling a Flame Dragon with Teleport Ninja. Especially the part where you landed on top of it to melee it with your Power Boost. You probably do more damage by spamming the Teleport Slash, though I guess what you did is probably safer so I kind of get it, maybe. Hey Clax, did you know that Teleport Ninja can Rain of Pain? No it can't. It can get high enough to with the Teleport Jump, but its ranged attacks have limited range, in pretty much every sense of the word. What it can do is rapid-fire its slashes while approaching a target from the air by just mashing B and Up like a madman. |
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Post by Indigo on Dec 6, 2013 8:52:05 GMT
Getting a text is pretty WHOOOOO. I used hyper earlier there since the increased speed also affects the teleport range (and for the milliseconds it's worth, execution speed). I mean, it only took a split second to teleport into position, not sure if I really lost any damage there (besides the weirdness of how it sometimes shoots on the dragon's back instead of melee)... But if I did, well, I have no regrets. Style first, efficiency later And Spike, I actually never realized that. It may be good to know along with the fact he can get up really high with teleport jumps. And yeah, always charging the teleport attack is just a subconscious habit when I don't really intend to teleport. I think you can notice mostly in the first video I usually just keep charging it up partially ... I was a little more focused here because I needed much more precision than dancing around, but I usually do it to more easily do the attack on a whim. So you noticed... I did set up Teleport Ninja for failure. I wanted Metal Sword Knight to get screen time I may do that sometimes (not-so-obviously sushicide) to get out other borgs. Just like the first fight where I stopped actively attacking and ran near Vampire Knight. /secret Oh, and Dethy, I'm not sure the teleport attack would do much better. It's around 45 damage, and the normal ground combo is around 80. Plus, I'd be falling to the ground with recovery lag every hit. It also gets the dragon to 'knock down' much faster. |
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Post by Death Eye on Dec 6, 2013 9:18:02 GMT
Oh, and Dethy, I'm not sure the teleport attack would do much better. It's around 45 damage, and the normal ground combo is around 80. Plus, I'd be falling to the ground with recovery lag every hit. It also gets the dragon to 'knock down' much faster. I just tried it to make sure I'm not sounding like too much of an idiot. Charge meter half-way off of Alphas Fully charge meter with two Teleport Slashes on Flame Dragon Activate Power Boost Semi-blindly spam Teleport Slash, miss with a quarter of them Hey what happened to Flame Dragon's hea- Flame Dragon dies by Alpha Shuriken Not sure how the math works on that one, but there you have it. |
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Post by Indigo on Dec 6, 2013 9:32:29 GMT
I guess damage scaling still works on fortress-like borgs... It kept reaching its knockdown limit every hit or two, right? I'd assume a multiplied damage teleport slash that keeps resetting that damage dampening allows for a more steady stream of damage. I may actually have to start relying on that later on, as the dragonbane of the team when they mercilessly throw multiple ones at you... I mean, I don't think this team has much of a chance against dragons otherwise besides Pop Honey.
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Post by Metal on Dec 6, 2013 23:38:46 GMT
I guess damage scaling still works on fortress-like borgs... It kept reaching its knockdown limit every hit or two, right? I'd assume a multiplied damage teleport slash that keeps resetting that damage dampening allows for a more steady stream of damage. I may actually have to start relying on that later on, as the dragonbane of the team when they mercilessly throw multiple ones at you... I mean, I don't think this team has much of a chance against dragons otherwise besides Pop Honey. Well sword knights shield can block breath attacks actually his shield should block everything, the bomb still hits because of AOE damage though. Stupid explosion. I survived an ult cannon shot once by blocking (accidentally ) with the shield. Though i did get pushed all the way across the map... |
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Post by Spike on Dec 7, 2013 5:16:35 GMT
Heh.... Didn't know Teleport's death was deliberate. Though, to be fair, Flame Dragon is a bit of a pushover, so I don't blame you for wanting to let your whole party have a piece of the action =D Hey Clax, did you know that Teleport Ninja can Rain of Pain? No it can't. It can get high enough to with the Teleport Jump, but its ranged attacks have limited range, in pretty much every sense of the word. What it can do is rapid-fire its slashes while approaching a target from the air by just mashing B and Up like a madman. I'm under the impression 'Rain of Pain' is just mashing B+Direction to shoot faster, regardless of Borg/if your in the air or not. ....Mostly because I tend to do such moves on the ground, as I've always found that to be more effective. Add to it, I've actually spammed Teleport Ninja's range attack from different directions, and not just forward motions only(Within an appropriate range, of course). Didn't know there was actually a difference though, with regards to Rain of Pain, so I'll remember that. |
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Post by Death Eye on Dec 7, 2013 5:32:46 GMT
I'm under the impression 'Rain of Pain' is just mashing B+Direction to shoot faster, regardless of Borg/if your in the air or not. ....Mostly because I tend to do such moves on the ground, as I've always found that to be more effective. Add to it, I've actually spammed Teleport Ninja's range attack from different directions, and not just forward motions only(Within an appropriate range, of course). Didn't know there was actually a difference though, with regards to Rain of Pain, so I'll remember that. It's not exactly a well-defined term, to be fair, but to me the "rain" part of it implies it coming from the sky. |
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Post by Indigo on Dec 7, 2013 23:52:15 GMT
Wire Girl makes an appearance! Although she doesn't save the day... Because she only appeared in the versus screen. This is the first fight against Orochi, and I thought I would need the extra firepower for her and the gem knights pair at the end, but Teleport Ninja and I were too in sync...
I'm gonna try and give Teleport Ninja a backseat for a while, to really take the time to get better with Sword Knight. The end was just a little embarrassing... I mean, I was trying to show off a stylish and fun way of playing him, but still.
Things I've learned: As it turns out, spamming that shield toss in between dashes makes it so Sword Knight spins around like a show-off, and actually makes for a completely seamless (no lag in between dashes or on direction change), faster movement that can dodge attacks very well while attacking at close range... And if the shield hits during it you get a free charge attack to combo. Doing this shield shuffle in midair will also drop you faster than normal... And interestingly enough, you can keep 'airdashing' infinitely along the ground as long as you keep doing it, like a (pointless) hover, though I think it's actually a bit faster.
Well, Wire Girl is ridiculously fun, too. Never really tried her that much before, but I used her a bit in some of the battles in between. Not only is it fun, but the wire gimmick gives so much more strategical value than I thought, and makes her into a mobile cannon with her charge shots. The reel-in works at any moment so it's almost borderline too good to escape from combos... And to keep yourself in position if something sends you flying. And if you dash towards your grapple line, you move extremely quickly... Anyway, Frozn, I'm counting on you for the upcoming Sho battle.
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Post by Stove on Dec 8, 2013 0:26:30 GMT
Yeah, the shield dash is part of what I was getting at.
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I made a thing... Long live Gotcha Force!!!
its the best way to watch him die.