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Post by Indigo on Nov 16, 2013 10:16:41 GMT
^ Finish that OC.
Back on topic... Currently mourning Kecleon's lost, locked potential. I just had a bit of an epiphany... At first, I thought Kecleon would become a bit more viable once the PokeBank opened. You know, how he has a huge, impressive list of tutor moves. Drain Punch and Iron Tail with STAB... And other great moves of different types for Protean.
Well... There's no way to breed down tutor moves, and there's no way to transfer a Kecleon with Protean... The one glimmer of hope that could make Kecleon shine is diminished.
That said... I still love him so much I want to make him useful. His STAB Sucker Punch is great but that's all right now. Turning into Ghost with the priority of Shadow Sneak hasn't done much. His strongest attack he can learn besides Sucker Punch is at 75 power. Not counting Dig. Or the array of great Sp. Attacks he pointlessly learns.
So, Flame Orb... And breed one with Trick. Maybe a decent idea? He has awesome natural Sp. Def, and Burn will help his average physical side, and possibly gain benefits of a swapped item. This is also with Trick Room in mind, I'd like to have a Pokemon that can set it up and then Kecleon could Trick before an item is used.
Sucks to be Kecleon... And Scolipede?
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Post by Stove on Nov 17, 2013 2:29:03 GMT
Scolipede doesn't need move tutor to be amazing...don't know what you're getting at.
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Post by Metal on Nov 17, 2013 5:57:39 GMT
I think he means pokemon he wants to do sonething with but doesnt know what yet.
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Post by Indigo on Nov 17, 2013 7:38:04 GMT
Just meant Pokemon that are screwed over from full potential until the next game, even with PokeBank out. Scolipede, not as much, but you still can't get a Speed Boost Scolipede with tutored moves, which are great for coverage. Kecleon lost a very decent chance towards being a bit more viable, as he can't access his huge list of tutor moves with his new Protean ability.
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Post by Stove on Nov 17, 2013 7:59:19 GMT
Just meant Pokemon that are screwed over from full potential until the next game, even with PokeBank out. Scolipede, not as much, but you still can't get a Speed Boost Scolipede with tutored moves, which are great for coverage. Kecleon lost a very decent chance towards being a bit more viable, as he can't access his huge list of tutor moves with his new Protean ability.
anything that doesn't resist Bug can just get smashed by those 180 power Megahorns.
Coverage is not an issue. The moves it loses don't really help it anyway. (Aqua Tail/Iron Tail are meh, and Superpower is not for an attack-boosting sweeper.) |
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Post by Indigo on Nov 17, 2013 9:25:24 GMT
The main thing I was getting at isn't so much the effectiveness so much as it being impossible. Which is kinda dumb. It's just sadder for Kecleon who got such a great skill that would finally make use of his movepool.
Well, I'm gonna try my first actual cooperative team. Featuring Kecleon of course. He's gonna be a supporter with Trick and Flame Orb to screw up physical attackers, and I might try to get Snatch, too. It's a gamble move but stealing a Sword Dance or Substitute would be awesome along with taking an item while crippling physical attackers. And Sucker Punch solves everything... Rock Tomb can fit in for small coverage damage and support, and maybe some other attack if I don't go with Snatch.
Gallade can take on a Burn crippled Pokemon to make up for his lower Defense, and has great Sp. Def, too. He could also possibly set up a Reflect.
I think I'll also have Sigilyph as an integral part of the team with dual screens (or just one) and Trick Room. It can help Gallade in a lot of cases, and especially Kecleon, to Trick before an item may buff damage, and to throw in an attack first to abuse Protean.
And perhaps Zoroark? Mind games with him can be very integral to setting up safer or just have him do his thing as a mixed attacker with okay coverage. He'd be another frail member to the team, though...
Pretty sure Greninja is gonna stick in the team as Kecleon's Kamina, with his crazy coverage and mindgame possibilities. Love how he works for so many things despite being weak.
Well, it's either Zoroark or Greninja. Because a frail-average team like that could really use some backbone. I think Golurk would fit in fine here, especially if I send him in with a Screen or Trick Room. Zoroark could pose as him as he's usually a target of Dark attacks, and I'm not sure but I think Zoroark could likely survive a hit from anything that hits Golurk super effective?
And... Again, if I only pick Greninja or Zoroark, there should be one more bigger guy. I'd say Hariyama but I'm not sure if his HP makes up for his sad defenses. He could be great with Flame Orb and Trick Room, though. And if he can get off a Belly Drum along with the Guts boost, probably anything's getting sweeped as long as Trick Room lasts... There's also Claxorus for a choice, though.
Tl;dr I don't have much if an idea of how to make an actual team but determined to make a team where Kecleon can do great things and overall where everything can support each other and try to make up for low tierness with Lelouch tactics and mindgames.
So, uh... Anyone have a spare Kadabra I could borrow? I guess I'd find and level up an Abra but its be great to have one closer to level 52 for Trick breeding.
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Post by Indigo on Nov 19, 2013 21:31:40 GMT
Sure is quiet around here.
I finally managed to get the ultimate Kecleon. Nature that drops Speed for Attack, and he has a perfect IV in Sp. Attack for some reason. I guess I can somehow utilize that somehow? Would have been nice with an Sp. Attack nature but his stat there is really depressing naturally anyway... But then again it's only 30 below his Attack stat which is also subpar... So he's not going to be OHKOing anything, but can probably still 2HKO with Sp. Attacks?
The main reason I'm concerned here is because for some reason his Sp. move pool is much more diverse and powerful. Ice Beam, Blizzard, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Shadow Ball, Flamethrower, and Fire Blast... And would Solar Beam count? Powerful and powerful-high-risk special attacks, while he's a physical attacker that at best has attacks with 80 power. Sucker Punch and... Strength. Everything else he can learn is 75 power, or mostly 60 or below. So, anyone that may know more than me here, how does effectiveness compare between, say, Brick Break (75 power), with an Attack base of 90, and Ice Beam or Thunderbolt (90 power), with an Sp. Attack base of 60?
But for now... The ultimate Kecleon has 3 egg moves. Snatch, Trick, and Recover.
Lots of support strategies to go with here, but in general he's going to try to go against physical attackers to Trick them a Flame Orb, and can try to wall for a while with Recover and the Burn. Might get rid of Snatch, but stealing a Sword Dance can't go wrong if it works. Sword Dance Gekigan FlareSucker Punch is the answer to everything. Stealing a Substitute would be great, too, and can potentially shut down walls.
Oh yeah, I should use Scyther EV trained on both defenses (with Eviolite). That's some awesome defense with Roost to turn him into a semi-wall heavy hitter.
And my friend wrecked me with just a Lapras... I dunno. He was running a half Rain Dance team, his Lapras had Hydration and Rest. That thing walled off half my team with no buffs. Thunderbolt, Grass Knot... Nothing got that thing to yellow HP in one hit. Flygon (EV trained for max Attack) barely got it to yellow HP with a Stone Edge, but promptly got assassinated by 4x Ice Beam. Zoroark did like 1/4 of its red HP with a Dark Pulse. It was kinda sad. Wouldn't wanna face one like that with Sheer Cold... But I guess stuff like that is banned.
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Post by Stove on Nov 20, 2013 0:47:17 GMT
Sure is quiet around here. I finally managed to get the ultimate Kecleon. Nature that drops Speed for Attack, and he has a perfect IV in Sp. Attack for some reason. I guess I can somehow utilize that somehow? Would have been nice with an Sp. Attack nature but his stat there is really depressing naturally anyway... But then again it's only 30 below his Attack stat which is also subpar... So he's not going to be OHKOing anything, but can probably still 2HKO with Sp. Attacks? The main reason I'm concerned here is because for some reason his Sp. move pool is much more diverse and powerful. Ice Beam, Blizzard, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Shadow Ball, Flamethrower, and Fire Blast... And would Solar Beam count? Powerful and powerful-high-risk special attacks, while he's a physical attacker that at best has attacks with 80 power. Sucker Punch and... Strength. Everything else he can learn is 75 power, or mostly 60 or below. So, anyone that may know more than me here, how does effectiveness compare between, say, Brick Break (75 power), with an Attack base of 90, and Ice Beam or Thunderbolt (90 power), with an Sp. Attack base of 60? But for now... The ultimate Kecleon has 3 egg moves. Snatch, Trick, and Recover. Lots of support strategies to go with here, but in general he's going to try to go against physical attackers to Trick them a Flame Orb, and can try to wall for a while with Recover and the Burn. Might get rid of Snatch, but stealing a Sword Dance can't go wrong if it works. Sword Dance Gekigan FlareSucker Punch is the answer to everything. Stealing a Substitute would be great, too, and can potentially shut down walls. Oh yeah, I should use Scyther EV trained on both defenses (with Eviolite). That's some awesome defense with Roost to turn him into a semi-wall heavy hitter. And my friend wrecked me with just a Lapras... I dunno. He was running a half Rain Dance team, his Lapras had Hydration and Rest. That thing walled off half my team with no buffs. Thunderbolt, Grass Knot... Nothing got that thing to yellow HP in one hit. Flygon (EV trained for max Attack) barely got it to yellow HP with a Stone Edge, but promptly got assassinated by 4x Ice Beam. Zoroark did like 1/4 of its red HP with a Dark Pulse. It was kinda sad. Wouldn't wanna face one like that with Sheer Cold... But I guess stuff like that is banned.
Goodra is a force to be reckoned with in the rain.
Also, has anyone messed around with the new Assault Vest item? It's amazing.
Increase in Sp.Def at the cost of being unable to use status changing moves.
For something like Tyranitar, that's a huge blessing. |
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Post by Indigo on Nov 20, 2013 2:27:37 GMT
I thought about using it with Kecleon, since he has 120 Sp. Def naturally. If my plans with him don't work out too well, I may try to go for a Sp. Def and Attack build with Assault Vest. He'd be free to physical attackers, but at least he could likely survive for 2-3 special hits, even more if Trick room is active and I switch to a good type with Protean before their attack.
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Post by Stove on Nov 20, 2013 3:43:52 GMT
Stick with attacking - Protean is more of an offensive ability.
EDIT: I am adding Exploud to my team for pure awesome.
Plus...here's a new move it (and three other pokemon, none who use it as well) got.
Boomburst
Type: Normal
Power: 140
Accuracy: 100
So...it's a Hyper Beam. With perfect Accuracy. And no recharge turn.
And Exploud gets STAB on it. Plus it gets Scrappy as an ability, so it hits Ghost types.
Yep, adding an Exploud.
Also, Claxus, can I borrow your Protean Greninja?
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Post by Indigo on Nov 20, 2013 4:22:55 GMT
That's true, but Kecleon's just such a weird guy. He has a moveset that can go any way... As for attacking, I checked his damages, using Brick Break as an average physical attack (his physical moves would vary from 60 to 80 Power), and Ice Beam. Brick Break, 75 Power, with 90 base Attack, calculated as 105. Ice Beam, 90 Power, with 60 Sp. Attack, calculates as 89 damage. All things considered, that's not much less... If he'd 2HKO with a physical attack, he'd probably 2HKO with a special. And if I went with the elemental cannons (i.e. Thunder), he'd easily surpass his max physical damage, but of course that comes with a chance to miss... Protean is an offensive ability, but it can also help him stall by switching resistances and keeping the enemy guessing. Against a Fighting type, his only weakness in his normal state, he could Trick a Flame Orb to them while also switching to Psychic to take the hit, and then that Pokemon's likely a pushover for the rest of the fight (and any physical attacker in general). And he'd also steal their item in the process. With that and Snatch, he can really throw off some strategies. Recover has some uses, like walling an Sp. Attacker if I can poison them. Speaking of which, he also learns Toxic, which will also work with Protean for another set of resistances, including his normal Fighting weakness. Gallade can learn Will-O-Wisp, and Poison Jab (not reliable, but you never know). The former can help himself, as well as Kecleon. Two Pokemon with average Defense, but very nice Sp. Defense. They both also have a way of healing. Gallade has Psyshock. Actually, Gallade would really love an Assault Vest. And both of them could do with Trick Room (and can learn it, but that's kinda iffy for them to use), Kecleon especially, Galalde would benefit more often than not probably. And Bisharp would, too... So one last thing. These guys are back together.  And about Greninja, does the nature matter? Actually, I breeded three, but I only use mine with a neutral nature. My other two have an Sp. Attack dropping nature, with one raising Attack and another Defense. If it doesn't matter to you, you can just keep one of those two. |
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Post by Metal on Nov 20, 2013 4:24:15 GMT
Stick with attacking - Protean is more of an offensive ability.
EDIT: I am adding Exploud to my team for pure awesome.
Plus...here's a new move it (and three other pokemon, none who use it as well) got.
Boomburst
Type: Normal
Power: 140
Accuracy: 100
So...it's a Hyper Beam. With perfect Accuracy. And no recharge turn.
And Exploud gets STAB on it. Plus it gets Scrappy as an ability, so it hits Ghost types.
Yep, adding an Exploud.
Also, Claxus, can I borrow your Protean Greninja? I knew i caught that wismur for a reason XD i maybe could work on my teams, but im kinda blah atm, work and irl stuff, blah lol anywho i want to make a team of unbeatable baby pokemon. Idt it is possible, but how hilarious would it be? |
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Post by Stove on Nov 20, 2013 4:39:05 GMT
I'd just take the Adamant-Nature one. I plan on using his physical movepool anyway, so that's the ideal nature.
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Post by Indigo on Nov 20, 2013 4:48:01 GMT
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Post by Metal on Nov 20, 2013 6:30:04 GMT
Um Clax, that link doesnt go anywhere XD Also the artwork from earlier is legit. I cant tell if they are fighting of having each others back, butni like it Now i need a ditto, and an evee. Gah! Eevee because well duh, and ditto so i can breed things without being bothered to learn which pokes make good mums and dads. (Breeding mechanics outside of ditto....) |
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Post by Indigo on Nov 20, 2013 7:25:52 GMT
The link still works for me, try copying it and pasting.
You know, you can get Eevees in the route before Geosenge. In the yellowy grass is where I find them. And Ditto you can find in the Pokemon Village. It's probably better if you can find Dittos in a Safari though, to breed down perfect IVs.
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Post by Stove on Nov 20, 2013 18:51:03 GMT
The link still works for me, try copying it and pasting. You know, you can get Eevees in the route before Geosenge. In the yellowy grass is where I find them. And Ditto you can find in the Pokemon Village. It's probably better if you can find Dittos in a Safari though, to breed down perfect IVs. |
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Post by Metal on Nov 20, 2013 19:53:10 GMT
The link still works for me, try copying it and pasting. You know, you can get Eevees in the route before Geosenge. In the yellowy grass is where I find them. And Ditto you can find in the Pokemon Village. It's probably better if you can find Dittos in a Safari though, to breed down perfect IVs. Yea but i dont have his final poke bc he isnt ever on when i am  Btw what is eevees hidde. Ability? |
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Post by Stove on Nov 21, 2013 1:05:07 GMT
Al's friend safari has eevees, meaning you can get their hidden ability if you want that too. Yea but i dont have his final poke bc he isnt ever on when i am Btw what is eevees hidde. Ability?
However, the evolutions have:
Flareon: Guts
Vaporeon: Hydration
Jolteon: Quick Feet
Umbreon: Inner Focus(?)
Espeon: Magic Bounce
Leafeon: Clorophyll
Glaceon: Ice Body
Sylveon: Pixilate
Also...this comeback was pretty epic. Went from 1-3 with my last pokemon sitting at 1 HP, to a victory.play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-oubeta-63838383 |
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Post by Metal on Nov 21, 2013 1:48:37 GMT
Yea but i dont have his final poke bc he isnt ever on when i am Btw what is eevees hidde. Ability?
However, the evolutions have:
Flareon: Guts
Vaporeon: Hydration
Jolteon: Quick Feet
Umbreon: Inner Focus(?)
Espeon: Magic Bounce
Leafeon: Clorophyll
Glaceon: Ice Body
Sylveon: Pixilate
Also...this comeback was pretty epic. Went from 1-3 with my last pokemon sitting at 1 HP, to a victory.play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-oubeta-63838383Gonna need a hidden ability one for leafeon then, because chlorophyll is rather useful. Especially in a double battle with a drought poke. Hrmmm... i need a megazard y or a groudon. And megazard y has better typing. I could just do a sunny day team but still. |
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