Gotcha Force Nuzlocke

[njayhuang]

So I was bored the other day after a round of Gotcha and started thinking. After playing the game for ~7 years and getting all the borgs, there's no real goal left. (Okay, I have yet to obtain all the rare forms of every borg, but that's not feasibly attainable.) Anyone can use Flame Dragon or Sirius or Garuda or Cyber Ninja to breeze through the game. The only real challenges in the game are self-imposed restrictions.

I've been doing tribe playthroughs, but once I'm through with that (skipping Idol and maybe Insect for obvious reasons), I'm not sure what I can do next. Tribe playthroughs of challenge mode? It's pretty much the same thing.

That's when I came up with an idea: Gotcha Force Nuzlocke.

For those who don't know what the Nuzlocke challenge is, it's a Pokemon challenge with a specific set of self-imposed rules. There are extra rules that people have made up, but the following are the essential two.

• The player may only catch the first Pokémon encountered in each area, and none else. If the first Pokémon encountered faints or flees, there are no second chances.
  
• Any Pokémon that faints is considered dead, and must be released.
  

I thought about extending this idea to Gotcha Force to add more of a challenge.

For the second rule, we can just say that we'll put the dead borg aside and not use it for the rest of the playthrough since I doubt that any of us would actually consider deleting a Neo G Red. But for the first rule, I'm not sure what to do as the method of catching Pokemon is very different from the method of catching Gotcha borgs.

Your thoughts?

[Death Eye]

Sounds fun.
But you actually can't delete (or trade, I think) any G Red, so you would have to simply put them in the warehouse or something.

As for the first rule, only keep the first Borg they give you after a battle. That would work, right?

[Stove]

I've done this already like this:

From each battle you get multiple borgs, you may only keep one.
No data crystals at the start (so a new game)
If a borg dies, it is considered dead and must be sent to the warehouse or deleted.
If G Red dies before going Neo, Neo G Red may not be used.
Only one borg from each tribe in your force.


...still too easy.

[herpanda]

>_> This is an awesome idea. Good tweaks ^, except I'm not fond of your last rule.

This could end up really difficult depending on your luck. My two cents would be to make it so that you can only have one of each borg throughout your playthrough.

Ex. You get two battle girls, but you can only keep one. Your battle girl dies and you can't replace her with a new battle girl. You'd effectively have about 200~ lives, but that's adding in all of your death borgs too lol.

[Frozazen]

what about doing it solo? usually a partner really helps sometimes, but doing it solo can be a pain.

also if someone wanted to have more limitations, you could only get the first borg in a certain part of the map. after you finish all areas of the map, then you can start over (so you'd have to keep track of the areas that you've been through, and play missions according to if you want to have the optimal number of borgs) yes, this means that you will have little to no borgs until there is a mission for EVERY area of the map

^ you could set it so that you can do battles with a partner, so that you can get only the borgs that you want to get.

[herpanda]

If a GF Nuzlocke included all of the restraints we've put on, how do you think the difficulty would look? The only loophole through getting through the difficulty that I see would be using Dragons to just grind the whole game. There would be those dangerous OHKO missions, but a player could just switch out to protect those characters. Would there be a ban on characters like dragons?

What if there was a borg limit aside from the energy limit, say 6 (just picking a number out of my face), and you can only switch out one borg for every battle you fight, excluding replacing dead borgs.

I think the difficulty would pan out nicely, maybe even spiking around the second death force invasion (with Retake Serenety Street with Sho, all of the "elite" battles, Protecting the Data Crystal, etc.).

Would we be allowed to skip the first battle with Sho, or any other optional battle for that matter? If I did beat Sho the first time, I'd imagine G Red being the sole survivor. It's been a while since I played that match with just a G Red, but I'm sure it's about as hard as the AI ever gets, and that might be pretty gamebreaking if G Red dies so early in the game.

All in all though...this is gonna be my next GF playthrough, and I'm hyped. Great idea njay

[njayhuang]

One borg per battle is too much imo. Maybe we could set the rules to say that the one borg per battle can only be used if it was the first borg spawned, but this still seems like there would be too many. We could add an additional rule that only story-driving missions can be played, skipping the many Defeat the Death Force battles.

Another possibility is only counting the first mission of each story arc, but that seems like there would be too little. On the other hand, the Nuzlocke challenge is supposed to be challenging, and this seems like it would provide enough of a challenge while not making the game entirely impossible to beat.

The problem with Nuzlocke Gotcha Force is that you can't switch out. In Pokemon, you can switch out if one Pokemon is in the red to keep it from dying. In Gotcha Force, you can't do that; you just have to play safer or let it die and move on to the next one in line.

Another issue is that Pokemon has the whole training aspect. In Gotcha Force, if you keep a borg in the box for half a game and then take it out to replace a dead borg, it will do just fine. In Pokemon, if you try that, the new Pokemon will be underleveled and will die quickly unless you go back and grind.

Mar 12, 2012 23:53:42 GMT herpanda said:

If a GF Nuzlocke included all of the restraints we've put on, how do you think the difficulty would look? The only loophole through getting through the difficulty that I see would be using Dragons to just grind the whole game. There would be those dangerous OHKO missions, but a player could just switch out to protect those characters. Would there be a ban on characters like dragons?

I think there would be a shift to a more defensive and careful play style. When I play, I'll often rush in and try to do something cool because I know my Beam Gunner and Neo G Red coming after can handle the battle just fine. I really hope playing safe doesn't devolve into just G Buster behind an obstacle all battle, although it is a legitimate tactic.

Yeah, the only super hard missions would be the OHKO missions like ICBM, Ultimate Cannon, Combined Machine Borgs, and the Galactic Emperor. Missions like the ones with the bodyguard knights or the Cyber Ninja, Beam Gunner, Cyber Girl Hyper combination might be difficult as well, but the difference is that they don't one-shot borgs. As for bans, I don't think a ban on any character is needed. The chances of getting a dragon or any OP borg are pretty low anyways, going by any of the proposed rules of borg collection.

Mar 12, 2012 23:53:42 GMT herpanda said:

Would we be allowed to skip the first battle with Sho, or any other optional battle for that matter? If I did beat Sho the first time, I'd imagine G Red being the sole survivor. It's been a while since I played that match with just a G Red, but I'm sure it's about as hard as the AI ever gets, and that might be pretty gamebreaking if G Red dies so early in the game.

I think that choice should be left up to the player. Like in Pokemon, if there's a trainer you know can kill your team, you can choose to walk behind him and not initiate the battle.

Mar 12, 2012 22:49:49 GMT Frozazen said:

also if someone wanted to have more limitations, you could only get the first borg in a certain part of the map. after you finish all areas of the map, then you can start over (so you'd have to keep track of the areas that you've been through, and play missions according to if you want to have the optimal number of borgs) yes, this means that you will have little to no borgs until there is a mission for EVERY area of the map

I really like the idea of strategically choosing missions, but it seems like keeping track of the areas would be too much trouble for some people. If only there was some mechanism already in the game that could do that.

[herpanda]

Mar 13, 2012 5:49:46 GMT njayhuang said:

We could add an additional rule that only story-driving missions can be played, skipping the many Defeat the Death Force battles.

I really like the idea of strategically choosing missions, but it seems like keeping track of the areas would be too much trouble for some people. If only there was some mechanism already in the game that could do that.

According to a walkthrough, there are only ~55ish story driven battles, probably less. That's around 55 lives, letting you die once every battle, leaving you with NGR and two other borgs. >_> I dunno...that sounds tough.

I also think it wouldn't be too bad to keep track of which filler missions you've played, because there are usually only two at a given time. Sometimes there are three "Defeat the Death Force Unit" battles, but when that happens the third one is necessary for you to advance. But yeah, I see how this could make the game too easy still. Maybe...you'd be allowed to play only one?

Keeping the first borg spawned would amp up the difficulty, because those are usually crap borgs. You'd probably never get a good character then lol.

[Frozazen]

perhaps if you can't change the order of your borgs? as soon as you get a borg then you have to stick him in the back of your force. that could be in combination with a borg limit of 8 borgs. so if you lose all 8 of your borgs in a battle, then you'd have to put all 8 of them in the warehouse and stick in the next 8 borgs that you chronologically got and do the battle all over again.

but then again i was just trying to make things hard, not fun. i dunno what everyone would consider fun, cause pew pewing from behind a wall to preserve my favorite character is not my idea of fun...

[njayhuang]

Started a Gotcha Force Nuzlocke yesterday using the following rules:
1) You may only keep the first Gotcha Borg obtained from the first mission in each story arc/screen clear.
2) Any Gotcha Borg that is defeated is considered dead and cannot be used for the remainder of the playthrough.

I'm also defining my dupes clause as thus:
If the first borg from the first mission is a duplicate, I may either choose to keep it, or to ignore it and keep the next one. The choice must be made before the identity of the next borg is known.
(If the next turns out to be a duplicate, the same procedure applies.)

My thoughts on this ruleset so far:
Gotcha Force's lack of switching between borgs is a big problem. The point of the Nuzlocke challenge is to be difficult, but also to experiment with teams and Pokemon that would otherwise not be chosen. With Gotcha Force, I don't really feel that happening. I have done missions with the Nuzlocke borgs, but the majority of the important missions have been soloing G Red because I don't want to risk them.
It has gotten me to use borgs I haven't touched in a long time and it's fun using them, but every time I decide to use one, there's a huge risk that I'll never be able to use it again. I suppose we could remedy this by allowing more borgs, but then I think that comes close to having too many borgs and taking away the challenge.

In keeping with the Nuzlocke spirit, I also feel tempted to make a Nuzlocke comic but I don't know if I can draw well enough or if people would actually be interested in one.

[Death Eye]

Mar 16, 2012 22:28:28 GMT njayhuang said:

The point of the Nuzlocke challenge is to be difficult, but also to experiment with teams and Pokemon that would otherwise not be chosen.

What if one were to only allow the use of each Borg once?
I mean, it wouldn't really be a Nuzlocke challenge, but it would have the team experimentation effect... assuming you can even get through the whole thing. Which you can't, come to think of it. Maybe only allow a certain number of Borgs to be used more than once? One per story arc, perhaps, and it must be chosen as soon as you start it? And maybe it has to be put at the end of your force?
...This could work, I think. I may have to try it later.

Alternative idea(s):

Mar 16, 2012 22:28:28 GMT njayhuang said:

I have done missions with the Nuzlocke borgs, but the majority of the important missions have been soloing G Red because I don't want to risk them.

No G Red?
Nah, there are better ways of addressing that problem, I think.

[herpanda]

You can have it so that each borg counts as one person. You can obtain multiple borgs per battle, but only "people" you haven't gotten yet. If a person dies, you cannot replace them with a new borg of the same name. This should give you more options to play with in the beginning, rather than worrying about losing that wire girl because she's one of your only 4 borgs.

G Red playable, but no G Spam behind a rock. Or a house.

I would also say keep G Red to the back of your force, and any borg with 500 or more points to the back as well (placement for them doesn't matter). The only problem with this is that you're BOUND to lose your ninja and gunman, and then you're stuck alone until you meet new people. By that time though, you should have at least a command girl and Sonic Sam to curb you over. Ring Valkryie is a nice early borg as well, and barrier girl can carry you pretty far.

Even if the ninja and gunman die though, G Red should be able to handle himself for a while until you meet said characters.

So, it would look like
Ninja, Gunman, G Red ->
Gunman, G Red ->
Command, G Red ->
Command, Battle Girl, (Barrier Girl, G Red, placement for these doesn't matter as long as they're in the back)

You'll end up cycling through all of the weak borgs over the course of the game, along with a good number of good ones by the end game.

[Frozazen]

Mar 16, 2012 22:28:28 GMT njayhuang said:

In keeping with the Nuzlocke spirit, I also feel tempted to make a Nuzlocke comic but I don't know if I can draw well enough or if people would actually be interested in one.

give me a script an i'll see what i can do.

Mar 16, 2012 22:28:28 GMT njayhuang said:

My thoughts on this ruleset so far:
Gotcha Force's lack of switching between borgs is a big problem. The point of the Nuzlocke challenge is to be difficult, but also to experiment with teams and Pokemon that would otherwise not be chosen. With Gotcha Force, I don't really feel that happening. I have done missions with the Nuzlocke borgs, but the majority of the important missions have been soloing G Red because I don't want to risk them.
It has gotten me to use borgs I haven't touched in a long time and it's fun using them, but every time I decide to use one, there's a huge risk that I'll never be able to use it again. I suppose we could remedy this by allowing more borgs, but then I think that comes close to having too many borgs and taking away the challenge.

i think a fun idea would be to use only the borgs that you obtain from the previous battle. then you'd always have different borgs. but if the GF energy of the borgs obtained in the previous battle is less than 300, you can choose one borg that you used in the previous battle to use in the next battle. that and if you happen to only get a death icbm/death bomb on the previous battle.

[Metal]

Nuzlocke... Using only death borgs. If someone could do that, that person would be the gotcha force master.

[Frozazen]

well the hard part is that you don't really get death borgs in the beginning of the game, so i don't know if you could call that Nuzlocke.

[Metal]

Oh i didnt realize you had to start a new game for the challenge. My bad...

[njayhuang]

Mar 20, 2012 0:33:02 GMT Frozazen said:

i think a fun idea would be to use only the borgs that you obtain from the previous battle. then you'd always have different borgs. but if the GF energy of the borgs obtained in the previous battle is less than 300, you can choose one borg that you used in the previous battle to use in the next battle. that and if you happen to only get a death icbm/death bomb on the previous battle.

Although it's not Nuzlocke, that actually sounds like an interesting idea for a playthrough, at least, until it gets to the super hard missions >.<

I guess I'll just have to find out what a playthrough without Sho or Orochi joining is like.

[Frozazen]

this sounds like a challenge accepted moment right here *nodnod*

[Death Eye]

Mar 20, 2012 22:21:38 GMT Metal said:

Nuzlocke... Using only death borgs. If someone could do that, that person would be the gotcha force master.

If by that you mean take all the Death Borgs and apply the Nuzlocke "if it dies, it's dead" rule, then that sounds obscenely difficult.

Challenge accepted.

[Metal]

That is indeed what i meant. Your the death birg master you should try it. But you said challenge denied. And that meme guy is hilarious.