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Post by Frozazen on Oct 25, 2011 23:30:39 GMT
oh, and also I vote for putting Killer Girl below Normal knight on the tier list. Since there are about 3 Normal Knights to each Killer Girl in terms of GFe, then I would rather have 3 decent meat shields as a partner in place of a borg with little melee prowess and a long-range that misses a lot and also has a ton of lag.
Also I think that the BotW thread should be modified.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 23:33:22 GMT
^ but as a borg Killer girl wins easily.
Killer girl>normal knight.
Maybe lower for story, but for VS where you set GF energy? Nah.
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Post by Frozazen on Oct 25, 2011 23:36:28 GMT
okay then,
1v1: killer girl > normal knight
2v2: killer girl < normal knight
I totally forgot that we were making 3 tier lists.
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Post by Death Eye on Oct 25, 2011 23:41:00 GMT
^ but as a borg Killer girl wins easily. Killer girl>normal knight. Maybe lower for story, but for VS where you set GF energy? Nah. But even there if three lower-cost Borgs can do more than one high-cost Borg the lower-cost Borg's cost-effectiveness has to be considered; the only reason Death Borg Sigma II is as highly praised as it is is because it's as expensive as a Normal Knight and it's the fastest beam-spammer in the game. If it were as expensive as a Gold Hero nobody would even think of it. But before anyone makes the mistake, I'm not arguing in favor of Normal Knight above Killer Girl; I've been using Killer Girl quite a bit over the past... about a week, and she's definitely better than three Normal Knights when you know what you're doing. (On the subject of Killer Girls, mine aren't even a third of the way to level 10...  ) |
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Post by Frozazen on Oct 25, 2011 23:58:04 GMT
Actually, I would still use DB sigma II if he cost as much as G bLack because he is the fastest beam spammer in the game, but I see your point.
However, I still think that 3 shields would be better than a single buster laser. Personally I would fell so much more secure I my partner had 3 normal knights, and knew how to block for me. Not a lot of people, if any at all, know how to utilize a shield to protect his ALLY, which is probably why most people prefer to have an ally who can shoot, even if it is a laggy one. I am only voting in favor of normal knight because I think he has the potential to be a great meat shield. However the vote belongs to the majority, and things will be correct after lots of play-testing.
also I think we need to set a borg limit on each borg. I propose setting Killer Girl's to 2, and Normal Knight to 3.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 0:03:20 GMT
I think I'm getting better with dark knight.
I have mastered the art of standing still to block Ultimate cannon blasts and other such things.
So, yeah, a normal knight ally COULD be useful, but I think there are better shielders out there.
I prefer using beam wing red/blue to sigma II.
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Post by Death Eye on Oct 26, 2011 0:15:03 GMT
Actually, I would still use DB sigma II if he cost as much as G bLack because he is the fastest beam spammer in the game, but I see your point. However, I still think that 3 shields would be better than a single buster laser. Personally I would fell so much more secure I my partner had 3 normal knights, and knew how to block for me. Not a lot of people, if any at all, know how to utilize a shield to protect his ALLY, which is probably why most people prefer to have an ally who can shoot, even if it is a laggy one. I am only voting in favor of normal knight because I think he has the potential to be a great meat shield. However the vote belongs to the majority, and things will be correct after lots of play-testing. I just went through most of the Combined Machine Borg unit at Little Hill with two Killer Girls. That would be impossible for me with 6 Normal Knights (AKA a group of them with a cost as close to that of the Killer Girls as possible without going over). Therefore, I'm inclined to believe Killer Girl>Normal Knight. Though the disagreement here could be caused by the fact that you're thinking about 1v1 and 2v2, while I'm thinking of 1vArmy (AKA Story). Seems to me like survival ability in that context would at least carry over rather well into 1v1, though. |
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Post by Frozazen on Oct 26, 2011 2:33:10 GMT
Well Normal Knight, in my opinion, should be a support borg, so of course you'd have trouble using him alone. The only thing the sets normal knight apart from the other knights is his insanely low cost of 180 GFe. Sapphire knight is 630 GFe and better than normal Knight because he can actually deal some damage as well. I can't see Normal knight doing much damage at all in a 2v2 match. He's supposed to shield his ally from the opponent's attacks. I'm pretty sure that a good Normal Knight will be able to shield his ally, since they are teaming up on a single opponent.
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njayhuang
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Post by njayhuang on Oct 26, 2011 3:47:20 GMT
I think you're forgetting that the other team has two borgs as well. It wouldn't be hard to send one borg on either side of Normal Knight and get past his shield. Of course, I'm not really used to thinking in this 2v2 attack/defend style.
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Post by Frozazen on Oct 26, 2011 4:17:05 GMT
Well yeah that's true, I guess I should have said that you should go after the more annoying one first (did I say that already? i think i said that in my evaluation of normal knight). Of course, you could use it in tandem with a gun/sword tactic, but that would take some kinda crazy skill to pull off. Say your partner's a Beam Gunner or something. you could pull it off. I suppose I sounded like Normal Knight was the greatest thing ever, but he really isn't. It's just that he doesn't deserve the dirt low position that everyone else has been giving him, because he has his use as a support borg.
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Post by Death Eye on Oct 26, 2011 20:02:11 GMT
Personally, I don't see how using Normal Knight for support is even remotely practical, since I'm pretty sure it's almost impossible to get between your partner and the opponent and get your shield aligned properly to block the shots before they get there. And even if you could do it you still have the same problems you have with using the shield to defend yourself; your opponent's probably coming from above, so the shots will go over the shield unless you happen to be at the right altitude, which I presume would be a very difficult thing to manage.
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Post by Frozazen on Oct 26, 2011 20:27:45 GMT
Difficult doesn't mean impossible, but I agree that it is indeed extremely impractical. But do you know how epic that would be if you could pull that off? The only way I could see it happening would be if the ally followed behind normal knight, working towards an enemy together.
ahaha I see that my fantasies have gotten the best of me again, since now that I think about it that would be a REALLY hard thing to do xD
So do you guys agree on the borg limit thing?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 20:35:54 GMT
eh? I've missed a bit.
Normal knights could work for support but there are better options, like the virtually identical yet better sword knight or other knights.
Of course, normal knights are still cheep so it doesn't matter.
Borg limits? For story yeah but for multiplayer where you can set GF limits? Not really a problem.
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Post by Frozazen on Oct 26, 2011 20:38:09 GMT
^ does that mean you agree to setting a borg limit to each borg for versus? because i honestly don't want to be fighting more than one garuda on a single team...
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Post by Death Eye on Oct 26, 2011 20:40:34 GMT
Borg limit? I have no idea on that; I think that's what the GF Energy is for, but then again that doesn't stop someone from throwing 10 Death Borg Sigma IIs at 4 Wing Dragons. What stops that from happening is the fact that nobody in their right mind would use 4 Wing Dragons if they didn't want to fail.  Or two Garudas at three Drill Robots. Then again, two Garudas could probably easily be taken down by a Flame Dragon and a Cosmic Dragon could handle the Sigma IIs easily, as could two Machine Reds... |
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Post by Frozazen on Oct 26, 2011 21:08:57 GMT
Garuda is in a league of his own. NO ONE CAN TAKE HIM DOWN. That's why I suggest a borg limit of 1 for him. Once you take out an opposing team's Garuda, and still have your own, then you pretty much win.
Garuda should either be banned to Ubers or have a limit of 1. If you don't want him to be lonely then we could put Plasma dragon up there, too, but its not nearly as broken.
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Post by Stove on Oct 27, 2011 12:06:51 GMT
^I know numerous borgs that can take Garuda 1v1, with a player who knows how to use it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 12:16:34 GMT
Garuda isnt the be all and end all.
After all, who here has two garuda's? I dont.
Then again, I DO have two Anubis wings and a Garuda...
honestly, they should either be banned or just put on no limit.
After all, as Steve said, there are a bunch of borgs that can take down a garuda. For instance, just about any fortress or dragon borg.
Or in my case G Black/red.
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Post by Stove on Oct 27, 2011 12:19:01 GMT
^ermmm.....I used to have a lot on my last file.
Oh, and Gold Hero. And Death Borg Sigma I and II
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 12:20:02 GMT
^ yeah, I know. But not anymore and I think your the exception who has two.
Except the glitchers.
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