Question!

[Death Eye]

Do you think society is getting better or worse? Why?

I have to ask a minimum of ten people over the age of 25 that question for my Sociology class.
Is anyone here over the age of 25?

[Admin]

Society is definitely, positively, absolutely, most certainly getting worse.
And the speed it gets worsened increases every year.

There's no courtesy against your fellow human, animals, nature or the planet for that matter anymore.
OK so there's never been much of any of that, but it's getting ridiculous these days.

In the past you could simply walk up to a potential employer, ask if there was a job for you, and you'd most likely get one.
These days you must provide a minimum 1000 pager about your education and previous working experience before anyone even looks at you.
That's really nice for us who ended school ages ago, and can't built up any experience because of above mentioned reason.

I also absolutely hate how society relies too much on technology.
How machines, robots and computers are used more and more, and as soon as either one crashes, it's total disaster.
Not to mention these things takes up countless work opportunities that people could have instead.
It's all about "saving money" or "cutting expenses" while all the time the executives give themselves millions in pay raise.

No one is willing to spend time, effort, materials and very least money to invest into something that mankind could greatly benefit from in the future.
Like, for example, why must a space mission cost millions, if not billions, to make one short journey out there?
If it really could lead to humans settling on Mars within a very foreseeable future, couldn't people that's providing materials and such to build the various equipment needed do so at a lesser cost or even at no cost at all?
I mean think of what a future they could've been part of making!

Anyways, to keep it short, people only care about making money in the present, and they never think ahead.
What good will all the companies billions of money do when the Earth is deprived of fossil fuels and no serious effort has gone into making alternate energies or the pollution is too great to survive anymore?


There's a well spoken phrase in my country; "things were better before", and that phrase is no truer than today.

[Death Eye]

I just realized something.
No one will care if I get responses from people who aren't 25 or older, and this could be an interesting matter to discuss.
So, anyone with an opinion, feel free to respond.

[Viroth]

I personally believe it's getting even worse.

We humans are blindly walking into our doom, and anyone who says anything about it is an incompetent fool or "Crazy".

I myself have had this experience. I'd show people what was going to happen, most logically, to our society and species if it continues as it is, and of course I get called: "Stupid. Ridiculous. Crazy."

People are ignorant. Not because they're incapable of seeing the truth, but because they want to be ignorant. As Admin said, people just want to continue using diminishing resources instead of looking into space for alternative sources.

I mean, if we as a species united under one banner, we'd probably be so much more advanced by now. Space, unity, and technology are the answer. The amount of resources available for us in space are ridiculously huge, even if we just want more burnable fuels or whatnot. If we set up mining colonies all over out system, I guarantee you our society would not be facing the problems it faces today.

If we'd stop bickering over pointless things such as politics, stopped attacking each other like mindless animals, and opened our eyes to the truth, we'd get things done at a surprisingly fast rate. We as a species must be more ambitious! Screw getting tons of money, a good house, living a crazy life, and then dying! Not just a small business, entire planets must be colonized!

Politics, wars, cultural differences, social status... all meaningless things. We as a society are narrowing our sight, giving into blind ignorance, and accepting our impending destruction. The way society works and is at the moment will never improve. It's a system that will drive our species to extinction. But of course, no one likes to change. No one wants a government system that'll make us all mindless drones for the sake of humanity. Even if that's the best decision for the species.

So, society values: Money, Power, and Instant Gratification. Will this change? I don't think so. Can we be saved? Yes, but everyone will resent it and so, unlikely.

Will society get better? No, most likely. It'll soon collapse on itself. Meanwhile, I think I'll study it from afar.

[Dogmantra]

Society is staying pretty much the same and people just have skewed perceptions. "Oh," they say, "things were so much better back then!" but people lack the context. They say that history is written by the winners, and that's true. People look back on the olden days and think it was better because they forget all the bad stuff. After all, who wouldn't want to forget that sixty years ago you could be put in prison for being gay, and that just about two hundred years ago you could own people and this was a really common practice. In the last few decades, we've progressed amazingly, but we still have a ton of flaws. One of them is sitting around and complaining about things that suck. All that does is increase people's depression.

[Deleted]

There is not much i can say that hasnt already been said- I agree compleatly with most of what has been posted.
I belive that we should start using solar energy more, as there is much more solar energy hitting the earth each day then what we humans consume each day, it would solve many prolems and we could also afford to use more than what we already do! i just hope that this extra energy simply doesn't just lead to another pointless war...

[Deleted]

Not a single positive comment about society? Really? Must I act as the defense of our society?

Well, it's easy to see the negative isn't it? That's all you can see when the deranged human mind LOVES being a victim and even more so it LOVES watching tragedy and train wrecks. I think someone here is missing the silver lining, the big picture. Allow me to paint a brighter picture and not give in to the sado-masochistic mentality of our race.

Wars: Are you kidding? Wars are plummeting in death toll. For the love of Cthulhu, the civil war had more casualties than the war on terrorism and there wasn't three hundred million americans back then. All that's going on now is America trying to insure that the dollar stays earth's default currency.
Before WW2 the british pound was the world's go to international currency. Now with debt piling on the US, they're taking drastic measures to enforce and americanize oil producing countries and if you run the numbers, the war isn't that catastrophic. Corrupt, in a sense yes but not catastrophic. This is mild compared to eras past. This is INNOCENT compared to what once was.

People: I communicate to you now through emotionless text. Today, this state of affairs has sky rocketed. No one must see each other face to face. Why? Because now we can convey ideas across landscapes, reach consensus thousands of times quicker than we used to.
Soon, hopefully. Text based communication will become so integral that communicating emotions will be phased out and that it will effect us as a race and bring out more logic.
The denizens of our average earth have more intelligence than you give them credit for. A lack of will though. Cowards some might say. But sheeple are good for one thing; making sure things go according to plan.
I'm not going to sit here and act rebellious and say the government is doing something wrong. Wrong is an arbitrary perspective. As long as the people fall in line, do as they're told then we'll advance much more soundly and at a greater pace, which luckily the developed person is rather docile. Rather than, y'know, whining for a smaller iPhone and a faster internet connection, which our leaders are happy to provide for our continued distraction and labor, of which they may not need in a few years.


Climate change: Haha, yes. Many people may die. Natural disasters may be on the rise but when backed into a corner, humanity will adapt. Move inland perhaps throw gold into the atmosphere in case things get chilly, etc. I'm certain, that even though the common peon like you or I, may die our superiors would have at least kept the best and brightest of our race safe.

Alternative power? We're fully capable of making it work, hundreds of solutions have been suppressed. But, allow us to burn up the oil first while we keep the answers on layaway. That way we'll be ready to dominate the market with "new" solutions when the oil dependent world finds itself without fuel to burn.

That's it for now. Hope you enjoy my take on things.

[Deleted]

^ personally, i don't like watching/feeling pain, I am on always on the side of (possibly bleak) fact but that doesn't mean i don't believe that facts cannot be changed. While all of your points are valid, i see them in a negative light. i dont want humans to become logical and docile, emotion is good, and without faults we would be the same. i dont want to live in a society that blindly follows the government, as i think that people should do things for themselves (plus to me the goverment seems kinda corrupt...) and i also think that the way you brush of death is kind of... mean.
and i think that we should start using alternate sources NOW to prevent unnecessary death and harm to the planet, and as you have stated we already have the resources for using different energy. 'coughsolarcough'

[Dogmantra]

Apr 19, 2011 18:46:58 GMT @gotchaverse said:

Not a single positive comment about society? Really? Must I act as the defense of our society?

What about my post?
"We've progressed amazingly" isn't positive? I'd say that managing to stay "pretty much the same" in terms of quality for a hundred years (with plenty of improvements in areas that actually matter) is a fantastic achievement! Look at The Simpsons! That couldn't even manage ten years.

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2011 18:52:26 GMT Dogmantra said:

Apr 19, 2011 18:46:58 GMT @gotchaverse said:

Not a single positive comment about society? Really? Must I act as the defense of our society?

What about my post?
"We've progressed amazingly" isn't positive? I'd say that managing to stay "pretty much the same" in terms of quality for a hundred years (with plenty of improvements in areas that actually matter) is a fantastic achievement! Look at The Simpsons! That couldn't even manage ten years.

First of all, the simpsons are still funny. Not smart anymore but still funny. You see, unlike most other series, they've been around long enough to re-hash their own morals other than re-hashing the morals from older human songs.

Second, I must have skipped over your post. You had the good fortune of being second to the last which meant I had to read two big blocks after reading the most recent post. I honestly apologize, you made good points and people do not recognize our progression enough.

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2011 18:29:22 GMT @alberenza said:

^ personally, i don't like watching/feeling pain, I am on always on the side of (possibly bleak) fact but that doesn't mean i don't believe that facts cannot be changed. While all of your points are valid, i see them in a negative light. i dont want humans to become logical and docile, emotion is good, and without faults we would be the same. i dont want to live in a society that blindly follows the government, as i think that people should do things for themselves (plus to me the goverment seems kinda corrupt...) and i also think that the way you brush of death is kind of... mean.
and i think that we should start using alternate sources NOW to prevent unnecessary death and harm to the planet, and as you have stated we already have the resources for using different energy. 'coughsolarcough'

Where do I start... Of course you don't like pain consciously, that's an endeavor of mad-men. Though I was pointing out that being the victim and getting sympathy is a common trait in people. That and I'm playing devil's advocate here.

Also, the perceived value of individuality is in fact a farce and it is within our general progression that we lose it. Tribes become villages, villages become towns, towns become cities, cities become states, states become countries and soon, we'll be a big happy global complex. After that, the only way to unify ourselves is what we've BEEN doing. Communication. With advances in communication we can reach consensus faster. What happens when communication is constant between all individuals at once? Boom. Constant, perfect consensus. See the pattern?

Also, of course the government is corrupt. The United States didn't come into being, riding down from a rainbow pony unicorn. It was biological warfare, pillaging, slaughtering and cheating all the way. Same is true of most countries. It's just nature.

As for death? My logical value of life places my own and the majority FAR below the progression and good of the race as a whole. Sure, I'll kick and scream and become a hypocrite when it's my time to go, but I'll have the excuse of having a monkey's mind, clinging desperately to archaic self preservation instincts.

We should. We won't. Too much money in controlling oil. I agree with you but I'd like to point out that before a major catastrophe happens, the powers that be pouring resources into something that they can't bottle and market is a deluded fantasy.

A good fantasy, great in fact. But deluded.

[Death Eye]

Apr 19, 2011 18:46:58 GMT @gotchaverse said:

Not a single positive comment about society? Really? Must I act as the defense of our society?

Well, it's easy to see the negative isn't it? That's all you can see when the deranged human mind LOVES being a victim and even more so it LOVES watching tragedy and train wrecks. I think someone here is missing the silver lining, the big picture. Allow me to paint a brighter picture and not give in to the sado-masochistic mentality of our race.

Wars: Are you kidding? Wars are plummeting in death toll. For the love of Cthulhu, the civil war had more casualties than the war on terrorism and there wasn't three hundred million americans back then. All that's going on now is America trying to insure that the dollar stays earth's default currency.
Before WW2 the british pound was the world's go to international currency. Now with debt piling on the US, they're taking drastic measures to enforce and americanize oil producing countries and if you run the numbers, the war isn't that catastrophic. Corrupt, in a sense yes but not catastrophic. This is mild compared to eras past. This is INNOCENT compared to what once was.

People: I communicate to you now through emotionless text. Today, this state of affairs has sky rocketed. No one must see each other face to face. Why? Because now we can convey ideas across landscapes, reach consensus thousands of times quicker than we used to.
Soon, hopefully. Text based communication will become so integral that communicating emotions will be phased out and that it will effect us as a race and bring out more logic.
The denizens of our average earth have more intelligence than you give them credit for. A lack of will though. Cowards some might say. But sheeple are good for one thing; making sure things go according to plan.
I'm not going to sit here and act rebellious and say the government is doing something wrong. Wrong is an arbitrary perspective. As long as the people fall in line, do as they're told then we'll advance much more soundly and at a greater pace, which luckily the developed person is rather docile. Rather than, y'know, whining for a smaller iPhone and a faster internet connection, which our leaders are happy to provide for our continued distraction and labor, of which they may not need in a few years.


Climate change: Haha, yes. Many people may die. Natural disasters may be on the rise but when backed into a corner, humanity will adapt. Move inland perhaps throw gold into the atmosphere in case things get chilly, etc. I'm certain, that even though the common peon like you or I, may die our superiors would have at least kept the best and brightest of our race safe.

Alternative power? We're fully capable of making it work, hundreds of solutions have been suppressed. But, allow us to burn up the oil first while we keep the answers on layaway. That way we'll be ready to dominate the market with "new" solutions when the oil dependent world finds itself without fuel to burn.

That's it for now. Hope you enjoy my take on things.

You do realize the Civil War had more American casualties because America was fighting itself, right?
And if you burn all the oil off before you develop alternative energy sources, where do you get the fuel to run the machines you'd need to develop the energy sources?
And without emotions we might as well all be machines. Emotions are basically what make life life, as opposed to a mindless existence. Think about it.
And, personally, I'd rather minimize casualties than simply let the majority die. Plus, without subjects all a king has is a bit of land and a crown. The "superiors" will no longer be superior if all of the "inferior" die.

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2011 20:03:32 GMT @gotchaverse said:

Apr 21, 2011 18:29:22 GMT @alberenza said:

^ personally, i don't like watching/feeling pain, I am on always on the side of (possibly bleak) fact but that doesn't mean i don't believe that facts cannot be changed. While all of your points are valid, i see them in a negative light. i dont want humans to become logical and docile, emotion is good, and without faults we would be the same. i dont want to live in a society that blindly follows the government, as i think that people should do things for themselves (plus to me the goverment seems kinda corrupt...) and i also think that the way you brush of death is kind of... mean.
and i think that we should start using alternate sources NOW to prevent unnecessary death and harm to the planet, and as you have stated we already have the resources for using different energy. 'coughsolarcough'

Where do I start... Of course you don't like pain consciously, that's an endeavor of mad-men. Though I was pointing out that being the victim and getting sympathy is a common trait in people. That and I'm playing devil's advocate here.

Also, the perceived value of individuality is in fact a farce and it is within our general progression that we lose it. Tribes become villages, villages become towns, towns become cities, cities become states, states become countries and soon, we'll be a big happy global complex. After that, the only way to unify ourselves is what we've BEEN doing. Communication. With advances in communication we can reach consensus faster. What happens when communication is constant between all individuals at once? Boom. Constant, perfect consensus. See the pattern?

Also, of course the government is corrupt. The United States didn't come into being, riding down from a rainbow pony unicorn. It was biological warfare, pillaging, slaughtering and cheating all the way. Same is true of most countries. It's just nature.

As for death? My logical value of life places my own and the majority FAR below the progression and good of the race as a whole. Sure, I'll kick and scream and become a hypocrite when it's my time to go, but I'll have the excuse of having a monkey's mind, clinging desperately to archaic self preservation instincts.

We should. We won't. Too much money in controlling oil. I agree with you but I'd like to point out that before a major catastrophe happens, the powers that be pouring resources into something that they can't bottle and market is a deluded fantasy.

A good fantasy, great in fact. But deluded.

Hmm, looking back I do believe i have contradicted myself. I say I'm on the side of fact but now i believe that i am a naive idealist.
still do not agree with you, mind, although nice to see someone who accepts their natural hypocritical nature. regardless, death eye has already stated an argument i tried to say but couldn't, so I'll try again-
being a 'mindless machine' is NOT a state that i would call an ideal form for humans to 'evolve' into, no matter how convenient it may be!

[Deleted]

And I get back from my vacation to see some good points! But points I've thought of nonetheless.

Oil isn't a requirement to advance a technology. Since we have the resources available and perhaps the devices themselves on layaway, I'm certain we already have commercialized solar cars awaiting for a populace to get desperate and buy them up when a real crisis is at hands. Not that we need a real one. We just need a visible trend for the civillians (ie. war, gas prices) and then there will be an excuse to wheel it out.

Inferiors are becoming less needed by the day and human subjects are arbitrary bits of power that are never fully controllable without a sort of hive mind in place.
The knowledge of humanity has mostly been stored already so that puts doctors and other such things out of the running. That and Moore's law shows that by 2045 computers will have homosapien complexity, meaning our creativity will even be phased out. After all, what is creativity other than a complex adaptation of environment and knowledge?

As for us becoming mindless machines? We won't be mindless. We will be unified. Content. Efficient.

People, I'm not saying what I WANT to be a better future. My hopeless monkey brain wants to be an individual too, and it wants too live and prosper. These things, are the most likely outcome from where I'm sitting, I'm just trying to see the silver lining.

[Death Eye]

Well, as interesting as this discussion was, I'd say this thread has served its purpose, considering the discussion stopped 3 months ago and I've been out of that Sociology class for 2 months.

Oh, and in case you were wondering (which I'm sure you weren't), the reason I simply titled this thread "Question!" is because that's also the title of a System of a Down song I've never heard. Just figured I'd mention that. Now you can (probably) say you've learned something.

[Deleted]

I did! I learned that me and Dogmantra think similarly, which frankly, scares the crap out of me.

Also, did not know that was a SoaD song. Mind you, I don't know too many of their songs so bleh.

In any case, bookmarking this page for future reference. *going into Sociology in September*

[njayhuang]

Aug 3, 2011 7:52:31 GMT Death Eye said:

Well, as interesting as this discussion was, I'd say this thread has served its purpose, considering the discussion stopped 3 months ago and I've been out of that Sociology class for 2 months.

Oh, and in case you were wondering (which I'm sure you weren't), the reason I simply titled this thread "Question!" is because that's also the title of a System of a Down song I've never heard. Just figured I'd mention that. Now you can (probably) say you've learned something.

My response here is similar to my response the other question thread. Even though the purpose was to get responses for your Sociology class, it still serves as an interesting discussion topic. Even though the discussion stopped a few months ago, it doesn't mean it won't start again. There are probably a few future members who would add to the discussion.