Borg morals

[Admin]

This recently got me thinking, do Borgs have their own sense of morality when it comes to this war, or are they just mindless soldiers obeying their Commanders every whim no matter what.

The main reason for this is Death Arc.
He's a Death Borg, and thus should be throughly evil, yet when Tama decides to join the Gotcha Force, Death Arc follows him.

Did he do this because he knows the Gotcha Force are fighting for a just cause, or was he only following Tama because he's the Commander and/or because of his GF Energy.

[njayhuang]

I think they all have their own morals, but they also have an obligation to obey their commander. When Tama was given Death Arc, Tama became Death Arc's new commander. And so Death Arc follows Tama when he switches sides. I tend to think of Death borgs as mindless killing machines, so Death Arc wouldn't necessarily care for either cause as long as it meant he could continue killing.

[Admin]

Feb 19, 2011 3:44:14 GMT njayhuang said:

Death Arc wouldn't necessarily care for either cause as long as it meant he could continue killing.

Still, makes you wonder if that reason alone would make him go against his alleged master, G.E.

[Viroth]

Personally, I think it's a bit of both. I believe some borgs have their own morality, and would probably defy their commander if given orders that heavily conflict with their beliefs. But I also believe that some borgs know only to serve, and do so unquestioningly.

Because Death Arc defends Tama once the Death Force begins attacking him, instead of turning on him, I believe that it is probably programmed to obey its commander unquestioningly. I mean, Tama's been mostly a pathetic commander when Death Arc came into his service, repetitively letting it be destroyed, and if Death Arc truly had a conscious, it would've probably already rebelled, or gone with the Death Force once more when Tama was attacked.

As such, I mostly conclude that Death Arc is programmed to serve its commander, whether or not the commander betrays the Death Force.

I believe most other borgs, especially the humanoid ones, have their own morality. Some more flexible than others (Say, an ordinary machine borg), whilst some are more resistant to defying their beliefs for their commanders. Such as the some of the hero borgs, which I believe are more or less "Lawful Good" in terms of alignment.

When it comes to Death Borgs, I do believe they only know to serve the Galactic Emperor, and to destroy. They'd probably attack their commander if they aren't aligned with the Death Force.

[dillybar64]

I am reminded of a scene from Pokemon.
Since I love pointing out parallels between Gotcha Force and Pokemon I am going to post about it.
It is in the episode where Meowth, Ekans, and Koffing are seperated from Jesse and James.
Meowth is all "let's kick pikachu."
Ekans and Koffing don't join in.
When Meowth asks why, well, just skip to about 6 minutes in.
pokemonepisode.org/episode-17-island-of-the-giant-pokemon/#video

[Admin]

Feb 20, 2011 0:24:50 GMT Viroth said:

I mean, Tama's been mostly a pathetic commander when Death Arc came into his service, repetitively letting it be destroyed, and if Death Arc truly had a conscious, it would've probably already rebelled, or gone with the Death Force once more when Tama was attacked.

Maybe Death Arc realized the good side is stronger because of repeated defeats, and saw an opportunity to break free from G.E.'s tyrannical rule by following Tama to their side.

[Frozazen]

hmmm... i had just finished writing a philosophical rant about what's right and wrong, but it had nothing to do with the topic... there goes five minutes...

well, i think that you can only have morals if you have a brain with free will, so natually, death borgs probably don't have any morals.

the gotcha force, on the other hand. say stuff like "remember mega borg!" and "we must conquer evil," so that means that they have a sense of right and wrong, a set of guidelines that motivates them into action for or against something, therefore morals. also, the borgs have personalities, like how Musashi is the strong, quiet type, and Sasuke is the mischievous type, so i would think that they have morals, too.

i'm betting that death arc and the fortress borgs are controlled by people inside, and that they have morals.

the question that I want to know is: do the death borgs that fight on OUR SIDE have morals? like, are they fighting for us of their own free will, or do we just send these brainless robots into battle just to get killed? if they don't have brains, then why do they strike a victory pose when you win? do they suddenly get emotions when you make them, and hence, have morals? intriguing, isn't it?

[Viroth]

Posted by coolfreez on Today at 10:16pm
the question that I want to know is: do the death borgs that fight on OUR SIDE have morals? like, are they fighting for us of their own free will, or do we just send these brainless robots into battle just to get killed? if they don't have brains, then why do they strike a victory pose when you win? do they suddenly get emotions when you make them, and hence, have morals? intriguing, isn't it?

I think that when they've been reworked for use by non-death commanders, death borgs just probably have slightly altered programming. Because we haven't heard them speak at all, we can't tell for certain whether they do or not have an actual conscious or "morals".

Also, they could've just as easily been programmed to do victory poses when they sense that all enemy forces have been defeated. I think it's more of a psychological sort of thing, really. If death borgs have morals, then they're obviously very twisted. If they don't, well... G.E. felt the need to have his minions do a pose of sorts when they win. Don't question the genius of Galactic Emperor!

Edit:

Posted by dillybar64 on Yesterday at 7:57pm
I am reminded of a scene from Pokemon.
Since I love pointing out parallels between Gotcha Force and Pokemon I am going to post about it.
It is in the episode where Meowth, Ekans, and Koffing are seperated from Jesse and James.
Meowth is all "let's kick pikachu."
Ekans and Koffing don't join in.
When Meowth asks why, well, just skip to about 6 minutes in.
pokemonepisode.org/episode-17-island-of-the-giant-pokemon/#video

This... describes what I believe... almost perfectly. Not to mention it's hilarious.

[Deleted]

Also you could say that Tama gets double crossed by the Death Force at one point. (End of Death Commander Tama much?)

My theory is that gotcha borgs have sentience to an extent. G-red willingly forming Gotcha Force through his own ideals is an example of this.

The only exceptions probably would be Cyber Death Dragon and the Death borg series.

[Admin]

Feb 21, 2011 4:16:18 GMT Frozazen said:

i'm betting that death arc and the fortress borgs are controlled by people inside, and that they have morals.

I'm at the belief that all Borgs are sentient beings, even those that look like vehicles.

Feb 21, 2011 14:36:34 GMT @lunarkuto said:

G-red willingly forming Gotcha Force through his own ideals is an example of this.

I don't think G-Red actually formed the Gotcha Force, more that he was/is of a commanding officer rank.

[dillybar64]

Feb 21, 2011 15:06:45 GMT Admin said:

Feb 21, 2011 4:16:18 GMT Frozazen said:

i'm betting that death arc and the fortress borgs are controlled by people inside, and that they have morals.

I'm at the belief that all Borgs are sentient beings, even those that look like vehicles.

I agree.
Especially since I am already on record (thanks to this site) as saying that Gotcha Force is basically Pokemon + Transformers.

If they can speak I am pretty sure that they can think.
If they have the mental capacity to comprehend a language, I am pretty sure they have access to enough of their higher functions to think for themselves.

The question here is the same as the question with the pokeball.
When you put a pokemon (or in this case a Gotcha Borg) in a pokeball (or in this case your Gotcha Box) does it mess with their mind somehow so that they become more obedient?
That sure seems to be the case in pokemon. I don't care what kind of respect for power theories you throw down, that isn't enough with pokemon like Gyarados, Mewtwo, etc.

But is it the same in Gotcha Force?

[M.C.MastaAustin]

I assume they do have their own morals, but also fallow their commanders orders unless the order conflicts with their morals.

[wallen]

Well G Red hates the Galactic Emperor and the death force right from the beginning, before Kou knows anything about anything Gotcha, so they must have their own morals.

However, I think Death Borgs may not, they may just be mindless slaves.

[Frozazen]

perhaps the death borgs do have morals, and they are just loyal to GE, indebted to GE for giving them life, like a child to its parents. the ones that join you, however, see that GE really is just evil, and choose to fight for you.

[zaraiah]

In my own little world, I like to think the death borgs you actually obtain are rebelling against G.E. so maybe most of them are just on his side because he seems to be winning.

[PandaBrady]

I agree with most people in this thread. They have sentience. Tama switched because Kou and co. saved him from the death force, which were also trying to kill Death Arc. Also Death Borgs are like Storm Troopers, because the army is so massive they stay. If you switch you might end up fighting people (or in this case borgs) that you knew. Also the death force are cowardly, they dont want to fight death wing, dark knight, or the Cyber Dragon because they know how powerful they are. just like Storm Troopers and Vader

[Deleted]

Honestly, I believe it's a little of both. Yes, borgs have their own minds and personalities, which would in turn necessitate them having their own moralities, but I also believe they have to follow their commander's directions, if not orders.

Allow me to explain: (note, the following is ONLY my own opinion.)

The following is expositional. Please skip down to the bottom if you just want the "bare bones" of it all.

When a gotcha borg fights with a human, they become intrinsically linked to that human. Think of it like a symbiotic relationship. The borg will fight wholeheartedly for the human, and the human will supply the borg with GF energy.

Now here's where my theory comes down to the nitty-gritty. I personally believe that GF energy is just another name for the "fighting energy" you see in a lot of other anime and manga. An excess of ki (life energy) that can be used to help one in battle.

The thing is, the ki that they are infilling the borgs with is filled with a will to fight, to stand off against certain things, and to destroy those considered enemies. That's why it is called "fighting energy" instead of "excess energy".

This energy, when it fills a borg, not only gives them an excess of power, but also gives them a certain direction that they are always moving in... kinda like a compass, which will always point towards magnetic north. The borgs are always going to be single-mindedly targeted towards those who their commander is targeting.

This is the reason I believe Orochi had to be brainwashed to use her as a Death Force commander. G Emperor needed commanders to empower some of his strongest borgs, so he needed a human. However, he could not use force or intimidation because then the human would turn against him, using some of his most powerful borgs. To keep the borgs from being used against him, G Emperor needed a human commander that was so blindly devoted to him that they wouldn't think of turning away from his side.

The only reason I believe that Tama wasn't brainwashed is that he is a spoiled brat who would follow anyone who promised him what he wanted. G Emperor didn't need to brainwash him because he was willing to be coerced by whatever G Emperor offered him.

By the same token, that's how you can have your box create (yes, I'm one of the group that believes the box creates borgs from gathered data, rather than just recruiting them (data crystals speak in my favor on this)) death borgs and not have them immediately zip away to join the Death Force. The moment you have a borg fight with a commander, the borg is infused with the commander's fighting energy, which tells the borg exactly who are the "good guys" and who are the "bad guys".

So, in summary...

Here's the quick version.

The borgs have their own minds and opinions, but when a borg goes into battle, it is powered by the "will" (for lack of a better term) of its commander. It will not go against this will, just like you don't have a working car turning in the opposite direction from the way the steering will is turned.

[Deleted]

borgs have a will I think, and a lot of borgs are robotic like the cyber series, no, heck, G Red has the most morals and he is a machine!
The death borgs are probably the programmed robots.
If the borgs blindly followed a commander, then wouldn't that men that there is some twisted human controlling the GE?
I doubt it, but huh that would be pretty cool.

[The Regal RP Mod]

We never ruled out that borgs could Command other borgs.

[Frozazen]

true, like Death eye!

GE in my opinion isn't a true gotcha borg. I think that he's a human before he was turned into a floating plus sign with a brain